Phagocytosis

[PurpleYouko]

More to the point if you have too few rules, all you can ever get is complex patterns and not behaviours.

Conways game of life is a perfect example of this.

Sure the living cells make lovely complex patterns but they never actually do anything.

How many rules do you think were needed for real life to form? Think about it.

[Greven]

The Univeral Theory of Everything...

;)

All life on the earth (and in the univers of that matter) comes from the "simple" interactions of the atoms -> quarks and 4 "simple" natural laws, (plus a little here and there) and the you get human beings!!! Remember to add a little stupidity and the you have the perfect human... :lol:

[Ulciscor]

OK then... you program a computer with those four forces and simple interactions and see if it can build organisms out of them. A quantum computer then yes. Common pc's, certainly not.

[PurpleYouko]

The Univeral Theory of Everything...

;)

All life on the earth (and in the univers of that matter) comes from the "simple" interactions of the atoms -> quarks and 4 "simple" natural laws, (plus a little here and there) and the you get human beings!!! Remember to add a little stupidity and the you have the perfect human... :lol:

Holy crap.  :wacko:

He thinks atomic interactions are simple  :blink:

They might look simple to the layman but when you start to study what really goes on, the shear complexity of it all will blow you away.

Atomic physics make regular Newtonian interactions look like Kindergarten math.

[Greven]

Easy. It was just an answer to PY about how many rules a real world simulation would have. Certainly it will be impossible to run, but no impossible to design in theory.

[Greven]

PY maybe you are a chemist, by behind chemistry is physics doing all the work! What I say is that all the possible interactions are govern from the "simple" physcial laws, that is emergent! The interactions comes from the 4 laws, added together with quantum mechanics etc.

[PurpleYouko]

As I said in another thread, you would need a simplified, stylized approximation of the real (or artificial) world laws.

Then you need a system where your creatures can interact with it.

[PurpleYouko]

PY maybe you are a chemist, by behind chemistry is physics doing all the work! What I say is that all the possible interactions are govern from the "simple" physcial laws, that is emergent! The interactions comes from the 4 laws, added together with quantum mechanics etc.

I am also a nuclear physicist (in training)

I have yet to see any simple physical laws.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you. Would you care to explain what your four simple laws are?

[Ulciscor]

Gravity, EM, Weak and Strong forces?

[Greven]

My laws in Denmark are ;) :

The gravity
The strong nucleus force
The weak nucleus force
Cant remeber the last one...

Well they are not simple to the human mind, but computational they are simple (sort of).

[PurpleYouko]

Gravity, EM, Weak and Strong forces?

Not to pick fault too much but you have just listed some of the least understood areas of physics.

Gravity: Nobody knows what it is, how it is propegated or really anything about it except that it attracts things together. Simple? hardly

Weak and strong forces: These are nothing more than postulated forces that are required in some way to explain some of the interactions of sub-atomic particles. The foreces themselves have never been directly detected or measured in any way. Many modern physicists question that there is any such thing. There is a growing trend in modern physics to treat these as outmoded pseudo science like the philosopher's stone.

EM: Don't know much about that.

Good luck using these simple rules to make a sim.  :D

[Ulciscor]

I must say I don't think these are simple ways to make a sim.. I was just mentioning them 'cos Greven forgot one...

:)

[PurpleYouko]

Hehehe.

I know. I'm just messing too.

I also have to allow for the fact that I am privvy to a lot of scientific research that has yet to filter down to the public at large.

I just find it kind of amusing that obviously inteligent people like you and Greven are still using stuff like weak and strong forces where in my circles it is a little like attempting to convince an astronaut that the world is flat.

I guess they still teach the stuff in school don't they?

They taught me that electrons existed as shells around atoms when I was at school. Then when I got to college, the first day of lectures we were told to forget everything we had ever learned and start over.

Education is weird.

[Ulciscor]

I was going to say gravity, electroweak and strong but wasn't sure if that was acceptable :)

[Greven]

I guess they still teach the stuff in school don't they?

Yes they do! Phycis in Denmark are not very well teached, jumping over large gaps of importent things, making the student only know a bit here and there.

But I have long since abandone that kind. Know only computer science (incl. math) counts for me!