concerning leagues

[Griz]

lol Num beat me to the post ONLY because I am looking to my second time attachment of my damed placement control

that's something I'm interested in as well ...
and I noticed that when the algae are repopulated ...
they ignore my placement instructions.
is that part of what you are addressing?

see ... I have been doing gravity sims trying to confine the veggies to the
upper portion of the window ... developing bots that have to be able to
find a way to reach them. works fine until a repopulation event ...
and then they show up everywhere and the whole sim falls apart.

I'm also wondering if we might just post the relevent forms or whatever
moduals we alter somewhere ... rather than upload the entire program rev.
then other's who are messing with the programming could grab those and
run them in their own sim ... check 'em out.
once they are known to work and address what people want changed ...
then they could be incorporated into a new beta version.

just throwing out ideas ...
twywaltr

~griz~

[Botsareus]

I found it: http://forum.darwinbots.com/index.php?show...dpost&p=1107061

As you can see, I did not even touch the actual placement routines, forget about modifing them.  Ok I will implement this stuff and what you are suggesting but It will be useless once we got the egrid because the placement for repopulation will be determind by the conditions on the grid.

[Griz]

I'm just stashing stuff away for now ...
will install vb later this week and begin to see if any of this makes sense.

this was for ver 2.4, yes?

~griz~

[Numsgil]

I'm also wondering if we might just post the relevent forms or whatever
moduals we alter somewhere ... rather than upload the entire program rev.
then other's who are messing with the programming could grab those and
run them in their own sim ... check 'em out.
once they are known to work and address what people want changed ...
then they could be incorporated into a new beta version.

That's the idea.  All the code used to be pretty much in one form, (Form1).  Several monmths ago I took that apart and posted them to seperate modules.

Anyway, yeah, just zip up and attach modified forms.  It's easy enough for me to run windiff and see what's different.

[Numsgil]

Bots' robot placement code was really just a proof of concept about how the controls could work in the options form.  He left the actual grunt work of figuring out what the current code is doing and modifying that to the other programmers.

[Griz]

Bots' robot placement code was really just a proof of concept about how the controls could work in the options form. He left the actual grunt work of figuring out what the current code is doing and modifying that to the other programmers.

ah ... another 'idea' man, eh? ;)

~griz~

[Botsareus]

ok ok , I added the control myself, and will upload everything (including somebug fixes) to the darwinbots email adress. (Good Luck with that bots doing off yahoo on a 56k...)

[Endy]

Off topic:

Griz Posted on Oct 21 2005, 08:51 PM

... I have been doing gravity sims trying to confine the veggies to the
upper portion of the window ... developing bots that have to be able to
find a way to reach them. works fine until a repopulation event ...
and then they show up everywhere and the whole sim falls apart.

I did something similar for an ecological sim. The plants were modified to turn skywards and then accelerate. They typically wound up in the left top corner as an oddball consequence(I think sunwards(*.sun) is very slightly to the left of dead center, not sure). The plants eventually die from energy exhaustion and can leave corpses to fall down for lower bots to eat.

This should give you the results you want. An alternative option is to have them use buoyancy instead to provide the acceleration.

[Griz]

I did something similar for an ecological sim. The plants were modified to turn skywards and then accelerate. They typically wound up in the left top corner as an oddball consequence(I think sunwards(*.sun) is very slightly to the left of dead center, not sure). The plants eventually die from energy exhaustion and can leave corpses to fall down for lower bots to eat.

slick! of course I've not yet explored corpses and who can/can not eat them ...
trying to keep as few variables as possible ... to see what changes/mutations in bots evolves to work in a restricted environment that "I" have control of.

btw ... do you have that plant posted here? is it the floating veggie one I saw?
if not ... do you have it stashed or can you tell me how you modified it to do so?
tanks.

This should give you the results you want. An alternative option is to have them use buoyancy instead to provide the acceleration.

yes ... I enabled bouyancy to help my bots get up there ...
and then tweaked gravity to get a nice balance.
I believe that was perhaps in 2.21 or something ... as the placement worked there.
trying it in the newer versions ... it doesn't keep them there.
not sure bouyancy is a feature in the 2.4 series ... perhaps it is renamed somewhere.
I'm still trying to just get it to run ... nowhere close to being able to experiment.

~griz~

[Numsgil]

Bouyancy is in 2.4, but not so directly.

Boyancy in 2.4 is a function of the density of the liquid around a bot and how much if it he is displacing.  Later on I was going to add a way to build "float sacs" that increase volume without increasing density all that much.

[Griz]

Bouyancy is in 2.4, but not so directly.

Boyancy in 2.4 is a function of the density of the liquid around a bot and how much if it he is displacing.  Later on I was going to add a way to build "float sacs" that increase volume without increasing density all that much.

ah ... I like it ...
having been a submariner at one time.

are you also thinking of having density vary with 'pond depth'?
and as a function of the 'fluid' ... thick or thin?
interesting.

but why build 'float sacs'?
simply allow a bot to alter it's own density.
perhaps you were going to already have a bot density ...
and perhaps have it change along with body size ... I don't know.

anyway ...
always a good rule ...
to whenever possible ...
simplify, simplify, simplify.
that ...
and troubleshooting by altering only one variable at a time.
things are complicated enough on their own. ;)


~griz~

[Numsgil]

Well, bots currently have a radius and a mass.  Density is easy enough to construct from that (mass / (4/3 PI radius ^ 3)).

Currently, body is the only substance that effects bot volume and thus radius.  Shell and body are the only things that effect mass.

So presently a bot can increase it's density by building lots of shell, but there really isn't a way to decrease it's density along the same lines.

That's what I invisioned float sacs for.  float sacs would be massless bubbles that increase volume without increasing mass.

Also, in physics, all forces operate on added mass, which is a property I can only find alluded to in several places, so I may be off with it.

Basically added mass means that for an object in a liquid to move, it must accelerate itself and an equivelant volume of liquid it's displacing (that it must displace to move forwards and replace behind it as it leaves).
As far as I know, isn't liquid incompressible?  Gasses are compressible, so density changes with depth, but I think things like water have a constant density at all depths.

So Maybe you could set wether the big blue field is a fluid or solid, and if it's a fluid wether it's a liquid or a gas?

Pressure, on the other hand, does indeed vary with depth.  Should we make an "implosion/explosion" threshold that bots explode/implode at if the pressure differential becomes too great?

Though I'm not so sure that's applicable since theoretically the bots' membranes are premeable to the fluid they're in.

[Botsareus]

You all know what I am waiting for...

[Botsareus]

Num, I think its better to release a new virsion of 2.37, because you may or may not have changed some of the code I wrote bug fixes for...

[Numsgil]

I can't worry about more than one version at once.  If someone wants to debug 2.37, more power to them, but I don't have the time or mental ability to keep track of two seperate versions...