Author Topic: ROSE is dead!  (Read 9187 times)

Offline PurpleYouko

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ROSE is dead!
« on: September 02, 2005, 09:21:18 AM »
A couple of weeks ago I was told about a cool online game.

I downloaded it and there began my downfall.

ROSE (Rush On Seven Episodes) online turned out to be so addictive that I spent every spare moment playing it.

Here is a little background for those who aren't familiar with the game.

The day before yesterday, it all came to a crashing halt. When I logged on I got this rather disturbing message.

SERVER DEAD!

AAAAGGGHHHHHH!!!!! I thought. What has happened?
I tried again and again but got the same thing each time.

After checking a few ROSE dedicated chat rooms I found out some unsubstantiated rumors that the "free" version of ROSE is utterly dead and gone and is soon to be replaced by a P2P (Pay to Play) version. These rumors unfortunately look more likely to be true with each passing day.

OH The HORROR!!!!!  :(

It might well be the coolest game I have ever seen but I am buggered if I am going to pay for it. I am way to stingy for that.

Now what am I to do?
I know. I am going to begin work on my own internet role playing game.  :D
It might take a while but it will be way cool when it is done.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world
Those who understand binary.
and those who don't

:D PY :D

Offline Numsgil

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ROSE is dead!
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2005, 09:24:44 AM »
Welcome to my world.  I refuse to pay for online games after what happened a while ago with a certain Online Collectible Card game and something like $400 in overdrawn bounced check fees...

Anyway, you need to find yourself some nice, free, replayable game.  I play Civ 3 on the hardest difficulty (and still can't even find a challenge anymore...)

Offline PurpleYouko

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ROSE is dead!
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2005, 09:27:19 AM »
So make your own then.

Wanna join me?
There are 10 kinds of people in the world
Those who understand binary.
and those who don't

:D PY :D

Offline Numsgil

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ROSE is dead!
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2005, 01:57:22 PM »
Haha, you bet :D

It should only take, like what, 3 months right?  :P
« Last Edit: September 02, 2005, 01:58:03 PM by Numsgil »

Offline PurpleYouko

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ROSE is dead!
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2005, 02:32:57 PM »
Quote
It should only take, like what, 3 months right?

Nah. Thought I would chuck one together over the weekend. How hard can it be?
There are 10 kinds of people in the world
Those who understand binary.
and those who don't

:D PY :D

Offline Botsareus

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ROSE is dead!
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2005, 04:38:16 PM »
Well if its not some ram starving 3D game , the game development itself takes about 3 days. The networking is the the killer part , so mutch bugs can happen with computers communicating at different speeds, different connections etc. then comes the pain of setting up a server. So that takes about 3 weeks. I dont know any networking so I am not sure how badly I am off, I know it shure takes more then 3 days.

I want to make a massive mutiplayer 3D space-to-planet/object online game, well I know that with my little convlage I have its going to take me atleast 5 years or so. (Num, this one ties in with that space exploration game you gave me ideas on)


As you guys are interested in making an RPG , (I hate everything to do with trading, so...)
If you guys run into any vb related nonsence , I might be able to help (I know Num will cover all the equations well without me , but just incase somthing crazy comes up let me know)

 ;)

... then again Networking is a PAIN....

Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2005, 04:48:23 PM »
As far as soe , they did this really evil antihack to my custom mouse controls , so I am not so happy to use sonys products anymore, and the cosmic rift comunity kiked me out of the boards for no spesific reason exsept that I was suggesting radical ideas (you know me), but this ideas in my mind anyway seemed like they can work well. Unlike the DB forum right here , no one there had enough skill to explain to me why my ideas were bad, one and only little theoratical mathematisian tryed to explain somthing, but he missed my point of the original post. As far as the rest of them they cursed me out until I could not stand it anymore, and soe did not reply or do anything about it. So I was like "Good luck with that soe, thanks for the free turnamint stuff" , "hope you dont make a law suite on me for using custom mause controls in the Turnamint" (somthing like you have to pay us back with interest for the free stuff, would be really evil and funny.)
 :P

(did not have time to breack it down into paragraphs sry)
« Last Edit: September 02, 2005, 04:50:09 PM by Botsareus »

Offline PurpleYouko

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« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2005, 04:59:42 PM »
Quote
Well if its not some ram starving 3D game , the game development itself takes about 3 days. The networking is the the killer part , so mutch bugs can happen with computers communicating at different speeds, different connections etc. then comes the pain of setting up a server. So that takes about 3 weeks. I dont know any networking so I am not sure how badly I am off, I know it shure takes more then 3 days.

Thinks I was being serious!! <_<

It is going to take a whole lot more than a weekend. Most likely a whole lot more than 3 months too.

The networking component should not be too hard.The tricky bit is in synchronising the signals so that the graphics are seemless.
I am actually considering running the whole system from a SQL server and having the player's PCs handle all the graphic from queries sent to the server over the internet at a rate of a couple per second. It is going to take a pretty hefty server to cope with that kind of traffic. The individual PCs can calculate how to move sprites from where they are now to where they will be according to the X,Y coordinates from the server.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2005, 05:00:11 PM by PurpleYouko »
There are 10 kinds of people in the world
Those who understand binary.
and those who don't

:D PY :D

Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2005, 05:31:36 PM »
calculations done on user side btw = hacker heavin...

The only thing in my mind ever to lend on user side is the grahix (if I figure out a good use for the cpu I will add it as well, for now I dont see any) Thats how soe got me , they were changing my controls on server side. I had no "special downloads" or anything...

or you can send the controls and the coords, that way if someone wants to check if you are hacking they can if your controls list does not match your coords list.


if you think networking alone was killer , try network security... In reality I still have no clue how even a basic 2D moution calculation is supposed to look like. Maybe we can make trafic so heavily incripted no one will have a clue how to properly edit it.

Then there are copyright security issues , .......................zzzzzZzzzzzZzzzzzZzzzz

Then there is the other side of the coin , making everything Pairtopair , save up on server speed big time. In a 3D game with tons of missles and god knows what else flying arround that will be a perfict solution.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2005, 05:34:20 PM by Botsareus »

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2005, 05:40:17 PM »
Quote
Quote
It should only take, like what, 3 months right?

Nah. Thought I would chuck one together over the weekend. How hard can it be?
I think you're underestimating the time involved.  Better devote Monday too :P

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2005, 05:52:10 PM »
Quote
Quote
Well if its not some ram starving 3D game , the game development itself takes about 3 days. The networking is the the killer part , so mutch bugs can happen with computers communicating at different speeds, different connections etc. then comes the pain of setting up a server. So that takes about 3 weeks. I dont know any networking so I am not sure how badly I am off, I know it shure takes more then 3 days.

Thinks I was being serious!! <_<

It is going to take a whole lot more than a weekend. Most likely a whole lot more than 3 months too.

The networking component should not be too hard.The tricky bit is in synchronising the signals so that the graphics are seemless.
I am actually considering running the whole system from a SQL server and having the player's PCs handle all the graphic from queries sent to the server over the internet at a rate of a couple per second. It is going to take a pretty hefty server to cope with that kind of traffic. The individual PCs can calculate how to move sprites from where they are now to where they will be according to the X,Y coordinates from the server.
I had the idea of a mMO once.  Let me explain:

Instead of a Massive Multiplayer Online game, you do a minimally Multiplayer Online game.  You make a program with a server and client.  Most people have a spare computer to devote to being a server.

So Joe Shmoe buys the mMO, and sets up a persistant world.  He then tells his friends, and they start playing on their own server with something like 10 players.

Which has the benefits of:

1.  No servers to buy and maintain for the developers.
2.  No worries about hacking (what sort of friends do you have that would hack their own personal server?  Anyway, just don't let your hacker friend play)
3.  Less anonymous playing.  You can be the star of the world, since there aren't hardly any of you playing.  The one thing about MMOs that frustrate me is how hard it is to gain any sort of clout.

I like saving the world and having everyone recognize me.  This way you can have that and still have the persistant world thing going on.

4.  One player can be the DM instead of playing a character.  If you make some really good DM tools, this ends up bridging the gap between D&D players and RPG players.

5.  No overcrowding.  There just aren't enough people to overcrowd.  Yet, since you know everyone that's playing, you can easily coordinate some grand adventure.

6.  You can get rid of the spawning monster generation model.  You can have monsters that die and don't dissapear.  You can have monsters that are actually born.  You can have players actually chop down trees and the trees don't grow back.    If someone torches a forest, the whole forest stays down, or slowly recovers.

Basically, whenever you do something, it permanently would effect the world.  It would be quite possible to kill every last ooglblat in the world, making them go extinct.  Or kill every single person in the world.  Or maybe even start a family with an NPC and make your own town.

The developers don't have to worry about gameplay balance (is this action overpowered/underpowered) since all the players are friends, and can make up their own "house rules", and tweek the stats to their own style.


Bandwidth requirements are likely within the realm of most standard cable modems since you only have a handful of players.  I see a game like this being much closer to tabletop RPGing experience and less of the level treadmill that most MMOs necessarily are.

I've had this idea since way back when I got Ultima Online.  Only problem is any sort of online game takes in the range of 1000s of manhours.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2005, 05:54:57 PM by Numsgil »

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2005, 05:58:05 PM »
Or you could call it minimally massive multiplayer online game.

mMMO.  Or you could make up a decent acronym.

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2005, 06:04:50 PM »
I first imagined this as a squatter sim.  You start the persistant world and it's all forests and wild animals.  You and some friends find plots of land, clear them, farm them, form a town, try to start mining for ore, etc.

No real goals, just a blank canvas you can go and play with.

Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2005, 11:54:27 AM »
Descent3 is like that, problem is it lacks the "masive" part, takes the fun out of it badly. It make more sense to Invide some frands over and sit down for some Bond or some Dark for N64. Don't have to worry about phone bills that way.

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2005, 02:05:16 PM »
Not really, unless I misunderstand the game.  The game presumably ends when you finish a mission.  I'm talking about a persistant world that never resets, never goes away that a small group of peopel log on to.