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More accurate model of Radiation

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Botsareus:
It's a lot to explain and half of it is still theoratical but as you can see I cant wait to get it out.

The current model of radiation and therefor mutations of our little bots is inaccurate.

To be clear it does not allow for rapid speciazation.
It does not allow for a species to live long enough (enough generations) take time for compatition to take over, resulting in that one of shvartz favorate terms (somthing esamins proractive or somthing like that) the one very robot does not improve and the evolution only makes them worse.

To solve all this problems I propose a new model of radiation.

To better understand this model we need to consider two things.

A. A ray of radiation hits an orgainism and it gets a lot of radiation at one time.

B. Radiation has a long half life and degrades in an organism slowly

C. The ammount of radiation an orginism has dromaticaly effects how mutch its going to mutate.

D. Radiation is past on from parant to child in big ammounts because the radiation is inside the organism.

E. An organism with experiance to radiation builds resestance to it. An organism that had no radiation for a long time loses resestance. (to getting effected by new radiation)

F. Half of this things I had to gess on.


So I rewrote the mutations part of the program a little and added a new variable to each robot called radiation. Sorry that I describe it not excatly in vb , if you have qustions about my discirption or anything please ask

main = "radiation" is passed on from parant to child

child.main = parant.main

Public Sub mutate(n As Integer)
'being that the avrage chance of robot getting hit with radiation is 1/3
'and the ammount of radiation a robot gets is in the range from 5 to 1
If rob(n).main = 0 And Int(Rnd * 12) < 5 Then rob(n).main = Int(Rnd * 5)
If rob(n).main > 0 Then
rob(n).main = rob(n).main - 1

...code that lead to actual mutations

Repeat the number of times of main
{
mutaterobots with nums and pys mutations and there rates for each
mutate the rates themselfs
}

... code for info updates etc.

end if


The resolt is robots with a lot of mutations are common and  the robots with the best dna always dominate the screen (not allowing the bad robots to kill them off)

The little problem is the program can't seem to find a better firstbot then the original. The good news is atleast the (nums, pys) mutation rates are slowly changing. Currently my best robots rates are different from the original robot.

The longest I ran the completed virsion is 20000 cycles (I am running it for long the first time now) so who knows?

Numsgil:
Most mutations aren't caused by radiation.

We'va talked about this before Bots.  You make up solutions to percieved problems in mutations without checking if:

1.  It really is a problem

2. There isn't already a commonly accepted solution to mutation problems.

Avida is the Lingua Franca of evoultion sims.  Here's how its mutations work.

That's more or less what I'm turning DB's mutations into.

And for the love of Pete, run a simulation for more than 20 000 cycles, and at less mutation rates.

You're getting a Mueller's Ratchet.  That's what's happening.  The solution is to reduce the mutation rates or introduce effective sexual reproduction.

Botsareus:
Mueller's Ratchet , thats what its called , thx Num.

With FirstBot low mutation rates are not effective because they only make stupid changes. We need big change for it to work.

I can however try it on low mutation rates and see what happens. If I was right then...  just waste 24hours on somthing I am sure won't work.


The idea was to keep Muller's Ratchet away by other means then increasing the feild size or giving more food.


The above formulas are off I got Muller's anyway. So after I try what Num is suggesting I try new numbers see if that will work.

Zelos:
what is the real mutation rate in real life? I know that we humans have since we were apes changed atleast 30 basepairs per generation.
just some fun fact on our brain. it generally growed by 150000 brain cells each generation.

PurpleYouko:
Another problem is that I don't think you understand radiation properly.


--- Quote ---A ray of radiation hits an orgainism and it gets a lot of radiation at one time.
--- End quote ---
Radiation comes in several forms

* Alpha decay (a He nucleus), although extremely lethal doesn't travel very far and is utterly stopped by something as thin as a piece of paper.

* Beta decay (high energy electron) have a little more range and penetrating power but do much less damage.

* Gamma decay (very high frequency photon) can travel through almost anything and has enough energy to damage covalent bonds.

* UV radiation from the sun (High frequency photon) is able to do the same as a gamma only to a lesser degree. It doesn't penetrate as far though.

* Neutron radiation. High energy neutrons pack a real heavy punch that is able to transform an atomic nuleus into a whole new isotope or even element. Only really happens in a nulear reactor core or during the natural decay of certain fissionable isotopes such as U235.When something is hit by a ray of radiation (I assume you mean a gamma ray) it is hit by one photon at a time, not a lot at once.


--- Quote ---B. Radiation has a long half life and degrades in an organism slowly
--- End quote ---
The vast majority of radioactive isotopes actually have half lifes in the region of days or even as low as seconds. Longer lived isotopes include U235 (4.5 billion years) and  Th232 (can't remember its HL right now)
Almost everything we touch, drink, eat, has Uranium in it at a level of a few parts per million.


--- Quote ---C. The ammount of radiation an orginism has dromaticaly effects how mutch its going to mutate.
--- End quote ---
Wrong. Organisms do not have different amounts of radiation. They may become exposed to different amounts of radiation but they do not retain it.



--- Quote ---D. Radiation is past on from parant to child in big ammounts because the radiation is inside the organism.
--- End quote ---
No it isn't. Since radioactive isotopes (beyond normal background levels) are not retained within an organism, it cannot pass them on. Anything that would raise the level this much will outright kill the organism.


--- Quote ---E. An organism with experiance to radiation builds resestance to it. An organism that had no radiation for a long time loses resestance. (to getting effected by new radiation)
--- End quote ---
:blink:
You ARE kidding? Right?
I guess you weren't.
Oh dear. Where to start?
This is just SO utterly wrong. You cannot ever build up a resistence to radiation by being exposed to it. Radiation damage happens at the molecular level, way below cellular level. It physically breaks covalent bonds. Some creatures may secrete a substance that is able to harmlessly absorb a little of the photon radiation (UV and to a lesser degree, gamma) but nothing can stop neutrons.
Hit C12 with a neutron and it becomes C13 which then beta decays to Berylium. Berylium does not share the same valency as Carbon so the molecule flys apart and there is nothing you can do about it.



--- Quote ---F. Half of this things I had to gess on.
--- End quote ---
I could tell.

Organisms do not retain radiation unless they recieve a lethal dose in which case the organism will not be able to reproduce before it dies.
Radiation damage is an instantaneous thing.

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