Author Topic: Tides, as an addition to the weather aspect.  (Read 12694 times)

Offline vrukt

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Tides, as an addition to the weather aspect.
« on: August 21, 2014, 01:38:38 PM »
So I was watching this last night

Dr. David Deamer - "Systems biology, synthetic biology and the origin of life" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SHHfnIHXQI

He talks about the chemistry of early life, and how tidal pools may have moved it along through repeating wet/dry cycles.

Now I know Darwinbots has no "water" but it does have gravity and light.

So my proposal for tides would involve an "increase in gravity < increase in light < decrease in gravity < burst of Brownian motion < decrease in light < timer"

So the water goes out, leaving behind shallow water, increasing the sunlight and gathering all the bots at the bottom of the tank. Then a wave of water rushes back in, stirring everything, throwing bots upwards, and decreasing the availability of the sunlight, then a timer setting to keep the tides flowing (X cycles before next tide, duration of Y cycles)

Just thought a feature like this could be easily implemented, and add more variety to the darwinbots environment.
When is it alive?

Offline spork22

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Re: Tides, as an addition to the weather aspect.
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2014, 07:29:12 PM »
I wouldn't mind that idea if it could be toggled.
Hubba Jubba Lollywash!

Offline vrukt

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Re: Tides, as an addition to the weather aspect.
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2014, 12:05:45 AM »
Toggling would be key. It would be like an addition to pondmode. Could be part of a larger weather engine really.

You'd have the pondmode, Botsareus' new moving sunlight mode, and a mode to mix up the water with tides, which is basically an enhanced pondmode.
 
I wanted an increase in light as the water gets lower, but thinking about it that should be also put on a toggle. Maybe one that varies intensity of light to simulate varying depths of water?
When is it alive?

Offline Botsareus

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Re: Tides, as an addition to the weather aspect.
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2014, 12:58:12 PM »
Sounds fun, pain to add though. Two reasons:

Pulling a new timer and variables from all over the place.
How to come up with exact values, that involves tweaking.

Also, just out of interest:

What do you expect the result of such a simulation to be?

Offline Botsareus

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Re: Tides, as an addition to the weather aspect.
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2014, 01:00:44 PM »
Also, if I may:

I like how your signature gets to the point right away  8)

Offline Botsareus

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Re: Tides, as an addition to the weather aspect.
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2014, 03:52:04 PM »
Tell you what, if you can do the home work for me I'll add it.

I assume you want sin curves(edit: except for the Brownian)
Give me the timing, minimum and maximum on everything.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2014, 04:27:06 PM by Botsareus »

Offline Botsareus

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Re: Tides, as an addition to the weather aspect.
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2014, 04:54:41 PM »
quote: What do you expect the result of such simulation to be?

Expending on that further, I already have advanced modes to force evolution, specifically survival evolution.

Offline vrukt

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Re: Tides, as an addition to the weather aspect.
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2014, 03:22:23 AM »
Well a sine wave addition would be getting fancy. I was thinking of the tank of being a small pool with water rushing in and pouring out. Technically that could happen instantly. The idea is to gather the bots, even the ones floating, all on the bottom of the tank for a set amount of time, before throwing them all up vertically, and reducing the light energy.

Currently I increase and decrease gravity, and vary the light strength manually to try and impose new conditions for survival.

So far the conditions have seemed to change what form the bots take for me. A well known example being when there is light, bots will tend to evolve chloroplasts and sit, so you turn it off to try and force other strategies to form.

I thought the waves would just be providing a new arena for new strategies, something more measured as well than just randomly changing physics variables to "stir" up the tank.

I of course differ experience with this program to you Botsareus, you clearly have more knowledge of the inner workings, so do you think this would actually effect anything in bot survival? Or just be a more visual feature than anything? I'm trying to focus on changing the bots, rather than make the program look pretty.

*also thank you for the compliment on the signature, it's a friendly reminder to the more profound aspect of this program "how long until it goes Skynet?"*
« Last Edit: August 23, 2014, 03:27:02 AM by vrukt »
When is it alive?

Offline Botsareus

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Re: Tides, as an addition to the weather aspect.
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2014, 11:20:31 AM »
Quote
I of course differ experience with this program to you Botsareus, you clearly have more knowledge of the inner workings, so do you think this would actually effect anything in bot survival? Or just be a more visual feature than anything? I'm trying to focus on changing the bots, rather than make the program look pretty.

Ok, then run stuff I run. Like go to global settings and run survival evolution. It actually produces interesting results, take a look at seasnake caterpillar or seasnake hydra as example.

Offline Botsareus

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Re: Tides, as an addition to the weather aspect.
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2014, 11:28:36 AM »
off topic:

btw MB league complete, Seasnake Hydra took first place, woot!woot!

Offline Botsareus

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Re: Tides, as an addition to the weather aspect.
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2014, 11:38:45 AM »
some what off topic:

Technically you can already make sentient beings with my system, just need to tweak the restart component to run as a continues simulation (should be easy enough to do, although untested), simplify/modify bot interactions to make them behave more like neurons and add sensor stream from an external environment while penalizing the brain for lack of resources.

For more information read: "It's a jungle in there" by David. A. Rosenbaum

What I am actively working on is sending my research to proper Uniys for evaluation and integration.

Offline Botsareus

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Re: Tides, as an addition to the weather aspect.
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2014, 01:17:28 PM »
Quote
So far the conditions have seemed to change what form the bots take for me. A well known example being when there is light, bots will tend to evolve chloroplasts and sit, so you turn it off to try and force other strategies to form.

I generally will just turn chloroplasts off.

I am walking a fine line between keeping league and evolution settings interchangeable and making other strategy evolve rather then just chloroplasts. edit: The results of my latest zerobot experiment should be very interesting.

As before I require exact settings from you as a system to evolve chloroplasts and other strategy together, you can probably hook it up to ecosystem survival evolution mode if you like. I still think a sin wave is the best option except for brownien motion that should be a saw wave pulse.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2014, 01:23:12 PM by Botsareus »

Offline Botsareus

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Re: Tides, as an addition to the weather aspect.
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2014, 01:37:02 PM »
Ok, maybe keep it as Sin curves (Drastic changes = bad, trust me) but make the timing adjustable, that is "how much cycles until 2pi"?

Once again, this will not be a way to evolve robots for leagues, just a new mode.

And, sorry, I have a tendency to not organize all my thoughts into a single post.

Offline Botsareus

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Re: Tides, as an addition to the weather aspect.
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2014, 02:38:45 PM »
Unfortunately, that video did not tell me anything new. I am playing with the values my self right now.

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Re: Tides, as an addition to the weather aspect.
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2014, 02:45:34 PM »
One problem I am experiencing, do you want pond mode? If so, what to do with robots using buoyancy?

Quote
I wanted an increase in light as the water gets lower, but thinking about it that should be also put on a toggle. Maybe one that varies intensity of light to simulate varying depths of water?

edit: In pondmode, you already have more 'actual light' on top and progressively less at the bottom btw.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2014, 02:50:05 PM by Botsareus »