Author Topic: Shvartz, can you help me out?  (Read 36218 times)

Offline Endy

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Shvartz, can you help me out?
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2005, 04:03:07 AM »
Quote
cond  *.nrg  20000  > start  50  300 stop
cond start  store stop
cond  *.shareshell  *180  !%= start  1168 -1  .shoot  store  10  .up  store  10  .up  store stop
cond start -1  7 stop
cond start -1  7 stop
cond start  store  10  dec  1  sub stop
end

The -1 7(second to last set?) is probably interacting with the 1 sub and the store at the top to make a -1 6 store, allowing the bots to turn(there's probably more to this, but I'll admit the rest hurts my head).  :wacko:

Whenever you decode what is happening you have to take the stack into account. Imagine a sort of circular dna structure with several DNA's after each other, then add the effects of conditions and non-activating genes in there(don't ask me how much your brain will hurt after you manage it). :blink:

Nice job Shavarz. :)
« Last Edit: June 25, 2005, 04:10:59 AM by Endy »

Offline Shen

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Shvartz, can you help me out?
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2005, 10:58:04 AM »
I ran FirstBot last night for a laugh. Field size 4, veg repop 175, veg starting nrg 5000, mutation rate 1000. I have about 5 different varients running around each with a dozen or so bots per species.

Im suprised I havnt got any gene splits or duplicates at all. I did get an increase in nrg required for reproduction via *.nrg 20000 > being duplicated and the > changing to a !%=, effectively increasing the nrg needed to 22000.

Also 10 .up store changed to 10 rnd .up store, presumably reducing the nrg required to accelerate when tied to babies/bumping veg. Maybe once its built up some junk and a few surplus store commands it will start to do interesting stuff.

Offline shvarz

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Shvartz, can you help me out?
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2005, 11:55:42 AM »
For all you brainiacs out there, here is a version from around 1.8 million cycles.  Try to figure out what it does while I am away (going camping):

Quote
cond  *.nrg  20536  >  *.nrg  20536  !%= start  inc  sub  rnd  inc  sub  rnd  50  300  50  300 stop
cond  store  store  inc  store stop
cond  *.shareshell  *180  !%= start  1168  store  mult  1168  store  sub  *735  *.genes  dec  *778  *.setaim  *768  dec  *.setaim  *768  rnd -1  div -1294  *491  460  store  218  inc -1202  10  1  rnd  div  10  .up  store  10  441  mult  1342 stop
cond start -1161 -1  7 stop
cond start -1  7 stop
cond start  store  10  dec  1  inc  sub stop
end
"Never underestimate the power of stupid things in big numbers" - Serious Sam

Offline Sprotiel

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Shvartz, can you help me out?
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2005, 12:39:26 PM »
Hey! There's no start in the second gene!

Offline Botsareus

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Shvartz, can you help me out?
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2005, 01:49:15 PM »
Well , It lost the ability to turn.  And that Junk dna seems to be building up for some reason , hmmmm... Hehehe....

Anyone who can tell me why there is so mutch junk dna gets a cookie. (free energy?)
OR
Anyone that can prove all of this is not junk dna also gets a cookie.


The Problem is in my mutation sims it never stoped building up junk, and it never really did anything too special.

What I find good is that when I ran mutation sims It also had the rnd placed after the 20 to get the 20 rnd .up . Its a really common mutation.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2005, 01:54:03 PM by Botsareus »

Offline Ulciscor

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Shvartz, can you help me out?
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2005, 05:21:07 PM »
Maybe there is so much junk DNA because it has no positive or negative effect on the bot at all. So it can keep accumulating and changing throught generations. But a bot who has a mutation to junk DNA which becomes negative will not live long enough or even be able to reproduce, so the negative gene is not passed on.
:D Ulciscor :D

I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.

Offline Carlo

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Shvartz, can you help me out?
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2005, 03:46:26 AM »
Why don't you just add to the console execution mode also the listing of all memory locations accessed (read and write) by a bot in a certain cycle? It's a 20 minutes work.

Offline shvarz

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Shvartz, can you help me out?
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2005, 10:25:27 PM »
ooooh, yes!  And real-time stack observation too!
"Never underestimate the power of stupid things in big numbers" - Serious Sam

Offline Endy

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Shvartz, can you help me out?
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2005, 02:41:49 AM »
I think the -1161 -1 7 sub store(not all right by each other) is causing the bot to turn more. I had kind of guessed that would eventually occur. The slight turn would be useful at the start to avoid feeding from offspring and have better chance at feeding. But a larger turn would increase chances and help the bot more.

Not really that difficult to read the DNA, you just have to take multiple cys into account.

Like the ideas about stack observation and sysvar activation reading.

Offline Sprotiel

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Shvartz, can you help me out?
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2005, 09:41:34 AM »
Quote
I think the -1161 -1 7 sub store(not all right by each other) is causing the bot to turn more.
Nope! This does nothing (it means -1161 -8 store). Actually, the bot never ever turns.

Offline Botsareus

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Shvartz, can you help me out?
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2005, 05:45:53 PM »
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My advice is not to let it go beyond recognition - save some intermediate bots and align those to each other.

I cant beleave Shvartz actualy sayed this. This goes agenst the consept of evolution that he himself designed. That the program should naturaly evolve bots without any help from the user.



Shvartz, Is that firstbot getting too much junk dna so you decided to interfere?


 BTW: What is going on in general , are you still going at it?
« Last Edit: June 27, 2005, 05:50:44 PM by Botsareus »

Offline shvarz

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Shvartz, can you help me out?
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2005, 09:42:43 PM »
Quote
This goes agenst the consept of evolution that he himself designed.

You probably did not understand me.  What I mean is to let evolution go its way, but save the evolved DNA often somewhere.  Then later you can trace how mutation happened and what gene evolved from what gene.  If you just try to compare the starting bot to the one that's there 20 million cycles later, then they are going to be so different that it will be very hard to sort things out.

Yes, I am still going - there is tons of junk DNA, I think around 4/5 of all DNA is junk, but then I have not tried to figure out what that DNA is doing (maybe it's not junk).  I am at 2.6 million cycles.  But recently not a lot of progress has been going on, mostly because I relaxed conditions too much and there was no selection - run and shoot and you'll survive.  I am tightening the belt now...
"Never underestimate the power of stupid things in big numbers" - Serious Sam

Offline PurpleYouko

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Shvartz, can you help me out?
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2005, 08:43:50 AM »
Have any of them learned to change direction yet?
There are 10 kinds of people in the world
Those who understand binary.
and those who don't

:D PY :D

Offline shvarz

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Shvartz, can you help me out?
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2005, 10:41:33 AM »
Nope, in fact they recently lost the ability to turn that they developed before that.  I'm at size 5 now with friction at maximum and with moving factor at .55 - but they still can cross the screen fairly quickly, which means that they don't have to turn to get to food - they'll stumble upon it anyway when they go through that spot again. Argh, this irritates me!

The good news is that they have accumulated huge amounts of DNA and a lot of it is still active - average genome is 360 comands organized in 9 genes.  Last 7 genes are constantly executed.
"Never underestimate the power of stupid things in big numbers" - Serious Sam

Offline PurpleYouko

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Shvartz, can you help me out?
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2005, 02:00:29 PM »
What is your veggie cap?
There are 10 kinds of people in the world
Those who understand binary.
and those who don't

:D PY :D