Author Topic: Fatigue  (Read 5931 times)

Offline Ulciscor

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Fatigue
« on: June 11, 2005, 12:40:02 AM »
Hey I have checked the old suggestion boards in case I found something similar to this but I havent so here goes...

I was thinking it's a bit unrealistic for a bot to expend the same amount of energy every cycle applying a force to move forwards. I was thinking it would be a good idea to make it so either the same application force would cost more with time and so the expended energy each cycle would provide a lower force or the bot's max speed is lowered with time, with a recovery period proportional to the time spent moving.

The amount of fatigue would depend on the time the force was applied, as mentioned, and the magnitude of the force, along with the mass etc of the bot. Maybe a new kind of waste style attribute could be added to simulate the lactic acid build up caused by excerising for long periods of time; this waste could also kill the bot if high levels accumulated.

I'm not sure what use this would have except to make the simulation more accurate (possibly). It just looks so weird having bots whiz around the screen without showing any signs of exhaustion or stress.
:D Ulciscor :D

I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.

Offline Numsgil

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Fatigue
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2005, 01:42:35 AM »
Well, real organisms fatigue because they build up wastes faster than they can expel them.  Perhaps that's the direction to look in.

Offline Ulciscor

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Fatigue
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2005, 01:45:14 AM »
Maybe it could be linked to the waste already existing in DB?
:D Ulciscor :D

I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.

Offline Numsgil

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Fatigue
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2005, 01:48:11 AM »
Moving makes waste (I think), but probably waste needs to be accumulated more often.  Perhaps spending any nrg produces waste at a 1 to 1 ratio or thereabouts.

Offline shvarz

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Fatigue
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2005, 01:58:13 AM »
You have obviously never seen a bacteria swimming..  these dudes go non-stop without any fatigue.  In fact, since bacteria are pretty much immortal, you can imagine the same cell swimming around and around from the very dawn of time...
Fatigue has specific reasons, no point to aritificially introduce the concept of fatigue... instead we need to figure out how fatigue happens and figure out why it does not happen in any of our bots.  Then correct the inconsitency.
"Never underestimate the power of stupid things in big numbers" - Serious Sam

Offline Ulciscor

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Fatigue
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2005, 02:00:53 AM »
I was thinking about bacteria not experiencing fatigue but wasnt sure if DB was specifically modelled after bacteria...
I am looking at some stuff about fatigue to see if I can find any decent answers.
:D Ulciscor :D

I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.

Offline shvarz

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Fatigue
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2005, 02:20:37 AM »
No DBs is not only about bacteria, though this is the first thing that comes to mind of most people.
"Never underestimate the power of stupid things in big numbers" - Serious Sam

Offline PurpleYouko

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Fatigue
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2005, 11:10:06 AM »
Quote
I was thinking about bacteria not experiencing fatigue but wasnt sure if DB was specifically modelled after bacteria...
I am looking at some stuff about fatigue to see if I can find any decent answers.
The million dollar question.

What the heck are DBs anyway?

I think they mean different things to different people. Even then they can be different things at different times to the same person.

To me, most of the time they are little nano-bots, 100% technological, but when I start to play with them for evolution then they are suddenly single celled organisms competing for resources.

I don't think there is really a single answer to this and that is one of the main reasons that there are so many conflicting ideas out there.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world
Those who understand binary.
and those who don't

:D PY :D

Offline Botsareus

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Fatigue
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2005, 12:11:50 PM »
DarwinBots is an original word. DarwinBots are DarwinBots.

Offline Ulciscor

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Fatigue
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2005, 03:31:27 PM »
OK Darwin Bots are Darwin Bots but that doesn't answer whether they should get tired or not. If they are modelled primarily after nanobots then wouldn't there be some form of overheating involved in applying a force for long amounts of time?
:D Ulciscor :D

I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.

Offline Numsgil

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Fatigue
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2005, 03:53:26 PM »
We could add it as some kind of option between linear waste build up (like now) and quadratic waste build up (fatigue).

Offline vryko

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Fatigue
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2005, 10:46:51 AM »
I suggest we would change the effects of waste.  if it makes movement and other simular thing more energy-expensive, we would have the same effect of fatigue, but without getting too artificial.

Offline Numsgil

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Fatigue
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2005, 11:06:42 AM »
Waste has always been rather ill-defined and sort of an afterthought.  It should probably effect bots in an indirect method, like it currently does, but with more profound effects.

Perhaps something as simple as current waste building up faster.

Offline shvarz

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Fatigue
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2005, 12:28:17 PM »
I was suspicios of the whole waste thing from the beginning.  "Waste" is such an abstract concept that it does not apply to any real situations that would affect all living things.  There are reasons for some things to be "not possible to utilize" or "harmful to keep", but they cannot be generalized.

Same with fatigue - its effects differ for different organisms and different actions.

I would say that we already have fatigue.  If I remember corrctly the stack can overflow and not accept any values if genes place values in it and don't remove.  So if a movemement gene places more values on stack than it removes (and if other genes don't remove these values fast enough), then in several cycles the stack will overflow and movement gene will stop working.

Of course, this is not a problem with man-designed bots, because designer can always remove those extra values, but for evolved bots this scenario is quite likely.
"Never underestimate the power of stupid things in big numbers" - Serious Sam

Offline Numsgil

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Fatigue
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2005, 02:25:12 PM »
I've modified the stack recently to discard old values as the stack fills, more like a real stack.

Just a side note, I thought I'd mention it now.