Author Topic: Neural networks using bots  (Read 5002 times)

Offline Numsgil

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Neural networks using bots
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2005, 02:56:08 PM »
That's sorta the area that hasn't been wikified yet (yes, it's a verb now).  To tell you the truth I've never played with them so I'm not too sure either.  I think PY's multibot tutorial might have something about them, or even the general help file in game.

Offline Ulciscor

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Neural networks using bots
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2005, 02:58:06 PM »
OK [Num] thanks I think I'll mess about with them now and see what I can find out!
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Offline Ulciscor

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« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2005, 03:36:33 PM »
OK well I have an idea for the energy sharing network but I don't know if it is overcomplicated or if it will even work.

I was thinking every time a new bot is born it bonds to the nearest 4 relatives and generates a random number for itself, from a suitable large range. So each bot in the net would hopefully have a unique ID.
So when a bot's energy is below a certain value, it would send it's ID to the attached relatives. They would then send out the ID to their attached relatives. Then when a bot receives an ID that is not the same as its own it would send some energy to all attached relatives. When a bot received energy and it hasn't got the same ID as the one it received it would send the energy out on all connections again.

Now I read what I have written I've just realised the whole thing could get stuck in a loop with the same bots sending each other energy all the time without it getting to the right bot.

Help!!
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Offline Light

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« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2005, 04:37:20 PM »
sounds like you want .sharenrg

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2005, 05:14:32 PM »
Yes, but that would defeat the purpose to some extent.

I think you're on to something Ulc, you just have to apply a damping force to prevent that kind of infinite oscilation.

In a spring the force is -kx - vb where k and b are constants.  The -vb is what stops infinite oscillations.  In your case, x is energy requested - energy wanted and v is energy just sent last cycle (*.pain).  (I might have some signs backwards, bear with me).  Keep sending energy out/collecting energy at rate v every cycle, where v changes by -kx - vb as I described above.

If that didn't make any sense I can try again.  I'm a little tired.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2005, 05:15:30 PM by Numsgil »

Offline Ulciscor

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« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2005, 05:39:05 PM »
Argh is that about simple harmonic motion? I think I get what you mean, it's like a pendulum stop swinging because of air resistance sort of thing and I need a way of stopping the exchange of energy continuing forever.

I have looked and can't find any referral to how to send data via ties or anything like that, does anyone know the location of the help files for this?
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Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2005, 05:42:21 PM »
tieval and tieloc.  tieloc locks onto a memeory location and tieval sends information through the tie.

Check the help->DNA help in game.  It has all the tie stuff.

The only problem is that currently you can only write through one tie once per cycle.  That limits the computational power of the bots.  But see what you can come up with.

Offline Ulciscor

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« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2005, 06:11:38 PM »
I have looked through all the commands etc and have found stuff like readtie but have no idea how to use it... where does the tie ID go if I wanted to read from a tie? Is it something like

(tieidhere) .readtie store
*.trefnrg (variablename) store

to read energy from a bot tied with tie ID (tieidhere) and store the result in (variablenamehere)?
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Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2005, 06:16:30 PM »
That looks right to me, but I haven't really played with ties before, so I'm not sure.

Offline Ulciscor

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« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2005, 07:44:00 PM »
Hey again lol. I've been trying to work out the DNA for this plant guy but it's quite awkward so I've posted it in the DNA help section. Could you mosey on over and take a look plz?? Thanks!
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Offline Ulciscor

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« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2005, 10:27:53 PM »
I think I have an unhealthy obsession with neural nets but they're so damn cool! I have also had some cool ideas about them that could be put in DB. I was gonna put 'em in the suggestions bit but since this thread is here I'll use it if that's OK...

I was thinking it would be neat for every bot to have a really simple neural net built-in so to speak, one that hasn't been set to perform any particular task yet. A blank slate kind of thing. It would be good if there was a little training program that allowed you to train your neural net to do different things, like recognising family, food, how to hunt or defend etc. Although thinking about it this completely detracts from using DNA, which is what DB is all about...
Crap! There must be something neural nets can be used for!
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Offline Ulciscor

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« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2005, 10:31:02 PM »
Oo hang on sudden thought, the coding in DNA can sort of be equated to instinctive behavious as the bot has no option in acting on it or not, if criteria are met then an action is executed. Well instincts would still be useful in a situation where an immediate action is required, but a net would be capable of forming more complex actions from multiple inputs. DNA could still be used to pass information to and retrieve data from the net, and commands could be added to screw with another bot's net. Sexual reproduction could result in a bot with a combination of both parents networks, whereas asexual reproduction would lead to a bot with a mutated version of the parent net.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2005, 10:31:26 PM by Ulciscor »
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Offline Botsareus

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Neural networks using bots
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2005, 12:11:39 PM »
Lets see here, Neural Net

This is far from close but:

Quote
-5000
10000
rnd
add
990
rnd
store

we got a bot doing random actions , thats a start.

A more complex system of random code , manipulating memory locations etc. can be used to create a "vertual neural nets"

Just bc its a nerual net we are still not working with malecules we are working with computer code. A nerual net in computers is just a fansy way of menipulating memory and/or doing random actions.

Ulciscor, based on my example try to write a more complex bot using somthing like a "nerual net".

Offline Ulciscor

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« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2005, 12:18:07 PM »
I thought that neural nets were made of nodes all connected together? The nodes are equivalent to the neurons in a brain, the connections are the dendrites and axons.
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Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2005, 12:20:13 PM »
Select case maybe?

cond
blabla
start
stop
cond
blabla
start
stop
cond
blabla
start
stop


All you have to do is write a complex matrix of randomly generated numbers , mathematics and conditions all linked to actions.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2005, 12:21:29 PM by Botsareus »