Are u a creationist?

[Numsgil]

a good bit of it can be more or less proven to be out of chronological order or just plain wrong as far as time scales go.

That's what I'm talking about with more or less factual.  Ancient people told stories in funny ways.

They'd jump around in the telling as they remembered things.  Chronological order wasn't their primary concern (I doubt it was a concern at all), but all the events that are described very probably occurred in one form or another (some could be allegorical or just plain made up during the times of Jewish scattering).

just the future telling is impossible, nothing is more unpredicteble as the future is.

Think about Dune and the Foundation series.  Trying to figure out a single person's future is hard.  Trying to figure out the future course of history is easy.  Sci Fi authors do it all the time, and some have managed to be fairly right.

In fact, I'm going to predict that there'll be a war in the Middle East between Israel and a coallition of its neighbor muslim nations.  At this point in history, that's probably an incredibly safe bet.  And remember, as long as you say 'in the future', you have until the end of time for it to come true.  And if you speak symbolically, then you have even more lee way.

So it's possible.  That the prophets were pretty good at being right is probably why it's called a 'miracle'.

[Zelos]

it aint possible, you make guesses and if your lucky you get it right, even futorologs have hard pridicting the future, the jockers is tehre and playing whit them.
if you say "in the future" then you will allways have right if mankind will always exist, it will then at sometime happen. but a true future teller tells the exakt date, time for everything. thats true future telling

[PurpleYouko]

I think my Mom must be a prophet then.

Here is a little (true) tale to get you thinking.

It was about 1979 and my Dad and I were just settling down to watch the semi final of the world snooker championship on TV. The match was between Cliff Thorburn and Ray Reordan I think, and was 100% LIVE, not recorded! we had been waiting for the match to start all day.

About half way through the first frame, my Mom came into the room and said.
"Why are you watching this match again?"
She insisted that she had seen it before even though it was LIVE.
My Dad and I thought she must be going mad or something and told her as much.
She then proceeded to describe the entire match shot for shot. (She has an amazing, if a little bizarre, memory to this day)
She was absolutely correct about every single detail of the match. Each shot went exactly as she said it would. She didn't miss out on a single thing.

This wasn't the only time this happened either. My Mom used to do this kind of thing on a more or less regular basis.
Every Saturday we used to play "pick the horse" for the Saturday afternoon horse races. For 15 years she picked the winning horse in EVERY race. I always hit and missed on what I considered a pretty good rate but my Mom got it right 100% of the time

What really pisses me off is that she has always been morally opposed to gambling so we we never got a penny out of it.  <_<

I have seen way too many weird things happen to write supposedly supernatural stuff off as impossible. I am more of the opinion that science just hasn't found a way to measure any of it yet.

[Zelos]

by just using the word supernatuaral ur saying that its not natuaral and ifits not natuaral then it cant happen

[Numsgil]

[facetious]

No, it's super natural.

Like superman.  He's just a man that's raised to the 100th power.

So supernatural is just a natural event that's raised to the 100th power.  Like a hurricane that can jump tall buildings in a single bound.  That's a 'supernatural' event.
[/facetious]

Supernatural just describes events we can't describe with convential science.  Ball lightning was supernatural for a long time, and it's still not well understood.  That's the perfect example.  It's hard to isolate the phenomenon, so it's hard to observe and reproduce, so it's hard for science to figure it out.

If I told you that I saw something spherical that entered buildings through windows and doors, you'd say that I was a liar or call it a supernatural event.  But it's not, it's ball lightning.  Read about it here.  We have a hard time explaining them with regular science, that doesn't mean they don't exist.

[AZPaul]

AZ Paul what happens when you die then(if there is nothing above humans)  .

Well, mrmound, I don't know. I've never been in the mood to find out. And I don't know of anyone who has ever survived the ordeal of death long enough to give any kind of report.

I can only surmise that when you die you return to that from which you came before you were born...the void.

Since I am the center of my universe I can only say that there was nothing but void prior to me and I suppose there will be nothing but void after me.

I know it is difficult to comprehend. I AM here. I AM feeling. I AM.

This life is real. I can feel it. These thoughts, these feelings, this ME that I know is. How can it ever be said to end? There must be continuance. There must be something after.

And there is. But not continuance of something so fleeting and ephemeral as life.

With limited knowledge we can only suppose that what comes after is the same that came before. The infinity that was and the infinity that will be. The void.

There might be something more. It doesn't look likely given what came before but we do not know. Until we have the experience we cannot ever know. At this point I'm in no hurry to find out. That will happen soon enough.

-P

[Greven]

I think my Mom must be a prophet then. ... my Mom got it right 100% of the time.

This seems supernatural, but it is not. Statistical this is unlikely, but it is not impossible.

Supernatural just describes events we can't describe with convential science.

This is true, but it is a limitation of our curret knowledge to call things supernatural, but still our societies is so 'Enlighted' that we should be very cautios about saying things are supernatural.

[PurpleYouko]

To me, supernatural is simply something which our present day science has yet to explain.

Some supposed scientists have told me that these events could not have happened because such things are impossible
This is the kind of person who, when faced with a personal experience that defies explanation with conventional science, would prefer to beleive that they themselves are mad rather than to adjust their world view to include the new experience.

This is just closed mindedness and not sctrict adherence to science.

Science doesn't prohibit anything
Our present understanding of science might do so but that is simply because it is incomplete.

If it doesn't fit into current your worldview, don't deny it! Investigate it! Otherwise you are living with faith in an infalable doctrine (religion).
Faith that Ghosts aren't real. Faith that Precognition is impossible! etc.

Science doesn't work that way!  Everything is possible (within reason). We just don't know how yet.
Actually I take back the "within reason" qualifier.
Everything is possible, if you know how to do it!

[Zelos]

a true supernatuaral thing can never be explained. btw some thing is impossible, I want to see anyone of you to grab a mans hair on the ehad when he have nbo hair there

[PurpleYouko]

I want to see anyone of you to grab a mans hair on the ehad when he have nbo hair there

Take the following steps to do this.

1) First you have to make one grow so research a cure for baldness.
2) apply the cure to the man in question.
3) Grab a hair.

If that doesn't satisfy you and you come back with a comment like "but you have to do it right now" then add these steps to the solution

1) First you have to make one grow so research a cure for baldness.
1a) Research, discover and implement time travel.
1b) Travel back in time to a couple of weeks before you were challenged to grab the bald man's hair
2) apply the cure to the man in question. (in the past)
3) Grab a hair. (in the present)

This kind of solution can be applied to any ridiculous situation that you can come up with.
I can't do any of these things due to my lack of knowledge of the specific area of science but that is completely irrelevent. Who is to say that I can' dedicate the rest of my life to discovering these things then come back and perform them right now?

[Numsgil]

Amen!   :D

If you are unable to consider a viewpoint that's not your own as possible then you're being closed minded.  That doesn't mean you have to accept other viewpoints as reality, or even very likely, but you can't just dismiss them because they don't fit within your framework.

[PurpleYouko]

Also there is no such thing as a true supernatural event.
Everything that ever happens can be defined as....

1) Stuff we do understand.

2) Stuff we don't understand.

Supernatural is just a convenient label to fit to option 2, sometimes through ignorance but mostly because we can't be bothered to waste our time finding a better name for it.

[Zelos]

PY, if you give the guy hair he have hair and then its possible, your supposed to do it while he have no hair. btw PY, when its about your mom, my dad can predict event years before they happen, not exacly but very close, how does he dop that? its called life experience. he have alot of it and can by that predict how things ends

[Old Henk]

Things that depend so much on chance -like horse racing- are not easily predicted with just 'life experience'. And certainately not before the race starts, and not as many times.

The question's not CAN they happen?
but
DID they happen?
Most socalled 'supernatural' events were just made up. (like most UFO 'sightings')

Henk

[PurpleYouko]

Most socalled 'supernatural' events were just made up. (like most UFO 'sightings')

I actually saw a UFO once.

It was a bloody great long cigar shaped thing with rows of lights along the sides that hovered about 100 feet off the ground for about 5 minutes before shooting off faster than a supercharged lightning bolt. (pretty damn fast)
It was about the size of a 747 but had no wings and was completely silent. I was directly underneath it for quite a while with 3 friends who all saw it too.

I have no idea what it was (that's why it is called a UFO)
It could have had little green/purple/grey men in it or it could have had American Military personel in it. I have no way of knowing. That is why it is Unidentified.

I just saw the thing. I don't claim to know what it was. It did peak my interest in UFOs and other supposedly supernatural occurences though.