Author Topic: Possible to Clone?  (Read 5085 times)

Offline Endy

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« on: May 05, 2005, 03:59:36 AM »
Hooray! I'm back...briefly. <_<

Oh well, a few days are better than nothing. :)

Had an idea for a SG bot using delgene to delbritly delete it's child's gene and then vshooting a duplicate of it's dna at the empty cell. Should all but eliminate the likelihood of mutations even in mutation sims. Kind of pointless in some ways, but would be interesting to see. Sometime, when I have time again :D  I'm going to try to make it work.

Kind of disturbing how close to reality this is...

Edit:
Oops didn't see The One's post. Still it itsn't quite the same... If I can figure out One's dna maybe I can make it work.


Endy B)

P.S.
Hey thanks to all those who wished me off, through the marvel of celluar technology; I was able to read them while waiting to head out. :)
« Last Edit: May 05, 2005, 04:21:45 AM by Endy »

Offline Carlo

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« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2005, 11:38:48 AM »
It's a good idea, but I'd like to generalize it more. Just add an instruction allowing robots to create an empty cellular body, and then (maybe adding some other instruction, if necessary) they could use shots or ties to pump in it a copy of their dna, gene by gene. Mutation routines could then be applied to shooted genes (they should already apply, do they?). This way you'd have a more interesting and complex reproduction system. If you want to keep also the old one, you can always run separate sims, say the simple repro sims and the complex repro sims.

Necessary instructions/ operations would be:

0) create empty body (options: with little or no energy, so that the parent has to actively transfer its energy)
1) copy-and-shoot arbitrary gene OR copy-and-pump arbitrary gene (for ties)
2) test for the genome length (to know when to stop copying)

hmmm.... that's all?

Bye
Carlo

Offline Endy

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« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2005, 03:42:33 AM »
It would be possible to accomplish that right now with viruses but the genes would have to be extremly short(I think vtimer max is dnalen sqr). It would also be hard ensuring the child receives all the genes, the problem similar to creating complex MBs. If it was enabled to work for ties and faster, it would be easier. Possibly allow it to only work for the birth tie to prevent abuse.

I don't think the viruses are currently mutated in passing between bots. I've seen dozens of them in a bot and seen no changes barring mutation of the bot itself.

The delgene(if not an inserted bot) part is working correctly. Still working on the vshoot peice.

Endy B)

Offline Carlo

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« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2005, 04:37:05 AM »
Quote
If it was enabled to work for ties and faster, it would be easier. Possibly allow it to only work for the birth tie to prevent abuse.

Well', I'd rather do the opposite: that is, unify birth ties and normal ties. Say that birth ties last forever, and robots have to actively delete them if they want to detach from the parent/son. Yes, this could lead - in case of mutations- to huge agglomerates of cells; but if ties are well managed (read: if the program don't crash) those agglomerates should be rapidly defeated by unmutated bots, more efficient.

Hmm. abuse... abuse... but, isn't it worse, to allow robots to shoot genes, instead of pumping them through ties? I mean, shooting viruses around is much more dangerous, viruses can spread much more easily. So maybe I'd rather kill the ability to shoot genes, and leave it all to ties.

Probably viruses are not yet mutated, but they should. It would be very interesting, and become necessary if they become a reproduction method.

Carlo
« Last Edit: May 06, 2005, 11:22:25 AM by Carlo »

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2005, 02:07:50 PM »
I agree.

Viruses should mutate.

You should be able to transfer DNA through ties.

Ties should be able to stay attached between daughter and mother cells.

Offline abyaly

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« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2005, 11:19:27 AM »
Cloning < Converting enemy bots to one of your species ^^ (say vegs for example...)
It would have to be a fairly short single gene bot for it to work (a very stupid single gene bot), but if all it has to do it delete genes, make viruses, and aim.. (it wouldnt need to repro ;))
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the time and handed on the fight to their descendants.
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Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2005, 12:28:15 PM »
aby, are using thats a good thing or a bad thing? lol

I think hes point is its a bad thing, a stuped bot will have too mutch power under this system.

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2005, 02:37:20 PM »
A bot that reproduces without reproducing would be fun.  And probably break all concept of the leagues if a competitor used it.  lol.

Offline PurpleYouko

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« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2005, 04:35:17 PM »
Problem is that the cloned bot would still have its original name and color.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world

Those who understand binary.

and those who don't

:D PY :D

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2005, 04:39:51 PM »
It might be a problem when the veggies start winning F1 rounds.

Offline Endy

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« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2005, 05:48:42 PM »
I've had all sorts of weird things happen using this. With Two the plants would be like a sort of infinitly powered reserve force, helping Two to defeat One. On some occasions the competitor would pick up the dna and have it's own replaced causing an endless match.

I'll agree that firing the viruses around is risky, I've had plants hit accidentally in Evo sims and wind up defeating the animals. It can also lead to massive numbers of small viruses flying across the screen, wiping out species through sheer numbers of store's.

Umm...I'm not sure if it's fixed yet, but if you delete the gene just before a viral gene is shoot, the larger virus is fired instead. Imagine expanding on this using One's gene, being able to vshoot itself multiple times taking only approx 9 cy to make a new virus, and you can see the problem.
 
ie.
g1
cond
start
.delgene inc
stop
'g2 Massive SG bot/viral gene

I think some sort of vtimer checker would probably be inorder, if the size of the gene has changed the program would disallow firing.

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2005, 07:17:02 PM »
I'm working on that particular bug now.  Problem is that it's sort of a mish mash of code to work through to rig up a fix.

Offline Endy

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« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2005, 11:13:03 PM »
Whenever you get time. For now I'd just recommend everyone agree not to abuse it. Besides I've already figured out a mod to One that legally allows it to defeat itself...I'm keeping quiet about that one until I can make a bot of my own take advantage of it. :D

p.s.
Oh yeah One's delgene funct works well for wiping out all other genes.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2005, 11:15:29 PM by Endy »

Offline Welwordion

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« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2006, 11:40:32 AM »
I think it would be useful if you could not only delete, but also copy them.
Adiitionally it would be great if you could have Dna parts for virus and those copies that in the original are formulas, but in the copy they are the values you calculated in the moment of coping/firing.

That ways you could send a virus with a standard template and once it is in an empty body it would just copy itself several times storing useful values in itself.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2006, 11:41:29 AM by Welwordion »

Offline fulizer

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« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2007, 05:13:47 AM »
stuff like that can give some extreme advantages to other species.
you will need to come up with a way to stop it from cloning itself onto other species or, as mentioned erilier, vegiies will become auto fed killing machines
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