Author Topic: Diploid DNA  (Read 6098 times)

Offline Numsgil

  • Administrator
  • Bot God
  • *****
  • Posts: 7742
    • View Profile
Diploid DNA
« on: February 20, 2005, 02:56:59 AM »
The problem with any diploid DNA system in DB is that it is very difficult to decide which is dominant and which is recessive.

In real life, dominant and recessive are decided by which gene is more active.  If both genes are pumps, the dominant gene is the one that pumps 30000 gallons a minute and the recessive one pumps 100 gallons a minute.

In DB, we have to fudge.

Imagine two synchronous DB DNA strands.  For simplicity, we say that gene 1 of strand 1 and gene 1 of strand 2 form a recessive/dominant pair.  If strand 1's gene is dominant it entirely eclipses strand 2's, and vice versa.

Pretty standard.  How do we decide which is dominant and which is recessive?  Each gene is pushed through a hash function. What is a hash function, you ask.

A hash function assigns a number to any object based on that objects properties.  The idea is that the number assigned to each object is as unique as possible.

So, each gene is now assigned a number based on their properties.  Identical genes get identical numbers.  The gene with the higher number in the gene pair gets executed, the other does not.  In the event of a tie (hopefully a rare occurance) the gene in strand 1 is executed.

Arbitrary?  Yes.  But I believe it would be worth a shot.  Obviously single strand DNA's should still be executed.

Offline MightyPenguin

  • Bot Destroyer
  • ***
  • Posts: 189
    • View Profile
Diploid DNA
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2005, 07:37:13 AM »
Arbitary, complicated and less intuitive than I would like. And don't we have Dominant/Recessive functionality in that any gene nearer the end of the DNA sequence overwrites the ones before?

I remember hearing about some problems along those lines, but I haven't been too active lately, so the memory is fuzzy.

Offline Numsgil

  • Administrator
  • Bot God
  • *****
  • Posts: 7742
    • View Profile
Diploid DNA
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2005, 02:10:01 PM »
Was talking to Zelos and he proposed this:

Code: [Select]
ploidstart

cond
start
stop
1 strength

cond
start
stop
2 strength

ploidstop

This helps keep pairs together.  The gene with the higher strength is executed the other isn't.

This also allows more than diploid.  We could have triploid or even more.

Offline PurpleYouko

  • Bot God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2556
    • View Profile
Diploid DNA
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2005, 03:10:28 PM »
I am not so sure that diploid DNA is really going to get us anywhere in DarwinBots. It could be useful from the point of evolution but is it really worth the effort of developing it?

There are a lot more important things to do with DB at the moment.

 :D  PY  :D
There are 10 kinds of people in the world
Those who understand binary.
and those who don't

:D PY :D

Offline Numsgil

  • Administrator
  • Bot God
  • *****
  • Posts: 7742
    • View Profile
Diploid DNA
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2005, 03:22:49 PM »
This is a distant feature, for maybe DB 3.2.  Definately not something I'd work on for quite a while.

The advent of Diploid DNA in real life seems to have allowed the explosive growth of species.  Life was pretty vanilla before eukaryotes developed, then BAM! you get multicellular life in a fraction of the time the protists swam around.  Right now bots are simple bacteria in complexity.

Also, the lack of the ability for crossing over has been mentioned in reviews from outside the community.

Here's one such source.  It's a little outdated but this still applies:
Quote
Limitations/Weaknesses

...

The critters can only reproduce asexually, which does not allow crossover and some other useful genetic programming devices.  Generally there is not enough user control over this aspect of the simulation.

Offline PurpleYouko

  • Bot God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2556
    • View Profile
Diploid DNA
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2005, 03:41:45 PM »
Funny how all these links and reviews are all about 3 years out of date.  <_<

 :D  PY  :D
There are 10 kinds of people in the world
Those who understand binary.
and those who don't

:D PY :D

Offline Botsareus

  • Society makes it all backwards - there is a good reason for that
  • Bot God
  • *****
  • Posts: 4483
    • View Profile
Diploid DNA
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2005, 04:59:36 PM »
Yes this all are good ideas. I also like the one about one part of the dna having more chance to mutate then another one.

I also like the new "Fast Reply" option.

Offline PurpleYouko

  • Bot God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2556
    • View Profile
Diploid DNA
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2005, 05:02:23 PM »
fast reply option is only available in some threads.

I figured it might help in the high traffic areas

:D PY :D
There are 10 kinds of people in the world
Those who understand binary.
and those who don't

:D PY :D

Offline Zelos

  • Bot Overlord
  • ****
  • Posts: 707
    • View Profile
Diploid DNA
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2005, 01:23:13 AM »
hte big advantage whit diploid dna is that the sexual reproduction can work like it sould, and that if 1 gene is damage by mutation or viruses it still have something to use.
 :evil: zelos :evil:
When I have the eclipse cannon under my control there is nothing that can stop me from ruling the world. And I wont stop there. I will never stop conquering worlds through the universe. All the worlds in the universe will belong to me. All the species in on them will be my slaves. THE ENIRE UNIVERSE WILL BELONG TO ME AND EVERYTHING IN IT :evil: AND THERE IS NOTHING ANYONE OF you CAN DO TO STOP ME. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Offline Numsgil

  • Administrator
  • Bot God
  • *****
  • Posts: 7742
    • View Profile
Diploid DNA
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2005, 03:15:19 AM »
It also allows mutations to gather in recessive genes, so they aren't expressed right away.

It also allows a great deal of diversity even within the same species.

Offline Zelos

  • Bot Overlord
  • ****
  • Posts: 707
    • View Profile
Diploid DNA
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2005, 03:31:55 AM »
yes it certainly do. it allow genes that are bad now to exist, later in a simulation they can suddenly become so much better they change to be the dominant 1. there is alot of advantages whit a X-ploid dna.
When I have the eclipse cannon under my control there is nothing that can stop me from ruling the world. And I wont stop there. I will never stop conquering worlds through the universe. All the worlds in the universe will belong to me. All the species in on them will be my slaves. THE ENIRE UNIVERSE WILL BELONG TO ME AND EVERYTHING IN IT :evil: AND THERE IS NOTHING ANYONE OF you CAN DO TO STOP ME. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA