Code center > Darwinbots3
Organelles, better multicellular organisms, and more
NotLegalTender:
What about being able to set the temperature, ph, salinity, and more as well? And then this should allow for extremophiles (maybe someone could make a water bear lol)
Numsgil:
--- Quote from: NotLegalTender on April 21, 2013, 05:57:55 PM ---What about being able to set the temperature, ph, salinity, and more as well? And then this should allow for extremophiles (maybe someone could make a water bear lol)
--- End quote ---
What effect do you want salinity to have? Same with the rest. I can add arbitrary things to the sim but they're meaningless abstractions unless they do something. And as I explained above adding things for the sake of it is something I'm specifically trying to avoid.
Let's take temperature. I'd probably add temperature if I joined it with the fluid sim to produce something that would create circulation. But it doesn't seem like it'd have any meaningful gameplay interaction with bots, besides the obvious " too hot/cold for me". And even then it's not clear how that would reflect in actual effects. Would the bot have increased nrg costs if it was outside its ideal temperature range? What decides a bot's ideal temperature range? It wouldn't fundamentally change how bots interact with their world or other bots, besides encouraging them to stay in specific areas that are the right temperature, which isn't all that interesting strategically.
NotLegalTender:
--- Quote from: Numsgil on April 21, 2013, 09:01:11 PM ---
--- Quote from: NotLegalTender on April 21, 2013, 05:57:55 PM ---What about being able to set the temperature, ph, salinity, and more as well? And then this should allow for extremophiles (maybe someone could make a water bear lol)
--- End quote ---
What effect do you want salinity to have? Same with the rest. I can add arbitrary things to the sim but they're meaningless abstractions unless they do something. And as I explained above adding things for the sake of it is something I'm specifically trying to avoid.
Let's take temperature. I'd probably add temperature if I joined it with the fluid sim to produce something that would create circulation. But it doesn't seem like it'd have any meaningful gameplay interaction with bots, besides the obvious " too hot/cold for me". And even then it's not clear how that would reflect in actual effects. Would the bot have increased nrg costs if it was outside its ideal temperature range? What decides a bot's ideal temperature range? It wouldn't fundamentally change how bots interact with their world or other bots, besides encouraging them to stay in specific areas that are the right temperature, which isn't all that interesting strategically.
--- End quote ---
Well, a few gameplay interactions could be:
PH: Low ph dissolves shell, can damage and even kill organisms incapable of tolerating it, high ph increases toxicity of other substances, and can also damage and kill organisms incapable of tolerating it. Also, ph could also affect breeding
Salinity: Affects osmosis. Freshwater organisms hold salt, saltwater organisms excrete excess salt.
Temperature: High temperature denatures proteins and such. Can't think of much more for this, other than maybe ice formation, and some organisms incapable of regulating body heat like warmer conditions.
Also, another small idea that should be added is being able to manually give bots energy, like you can manually reproduce bots by clicking on them.
Peter:
I rather like the idea of some fluid dynamics, it opens quite some possibilities. At the same time I'm afraid it'll take up too much computing time.
What would be the cost of circulation/diffusion? (it seems expensive)
Another question is to what level should the fluid properties be simulated? Should water freeze when it's below freezing point? Should salts have an effect on the freezing point? Should pH have an effect on the salt? How much substances should there be, to what level can they react with each other.
What are the current plans in DB3 to increase diversity within one sim? So that multiple species have a habitat in different places in one sim.
Numsgil:
--- Quote from: NotLegalTender on April 21, 2013, 11:10:13 PM ---Well, a few gameplay interactions could be:
PH: Low ph dissolves shell, can damage and even kill organisms incapable of tolerating it, high ph increases toxicity of other substances, and can also damage and kill organisms incapable of tolerating it. Also, ph could also affect breeding
--- End quote ---
But now is this really pH anymore? I mean, we could call[ it pH, but in reality it's just an arbitrary collection of effects under the pH label. Real pH effects organisms because cells are essentially chemical. They take in chemicals, manipulate chemicals, excrete chemicals, etc. The most fundamental chemical to a cell is water, since it's usually much smaller than any other chemicals it manipulates and so permeates everything inside and outside of a cell. pH is basically the ionization of water, so pH represents a fundamental physical property of a cell's universe. Cell's even have "proton pumps" which try to change the ionization of the interior of a cell or organelle from the exterior, to create gradients to do useful work with.
Bots, on the other hand, don't exist in water. They're not chemical in nature. They don't recombine basic building blocks in to larger, more complex molecules. And their medium is essentially vacuum. pH has no meaning in the universe a bot inhabits.
In a broader sense, we could try to add substances with different concentrations, which is what I was talking about with diffusion. But again, I'm not sure it's doable in an efficient manner.
--- Quote ---Also, another small idea that should be added is being able to manually give bots energy, like you can manually reproduce bots by clicking on them.
--- End quote ---
That's easy, yeah.
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