General > Biology
Need some input on my cholorplast algorithm
shvarz:
--- Quote ---If the whole screen was pure robots then the feeding rate is zero, If half the screen is robots then feeding rate is average.
--- End quote ---
Something like that. This would automatically create a self-balancing system of veggies, which could oscillate or remain fairly static or even lead to different life strategies. The exact details of how much to give when - that I don't know, this would require some careful thinking and empirical testing (can leave that up to the user if you want).
--- Quote ---The only thing I am concerned about is , what incentive will robots have to evolve there own chloroplasts if the program repopulates Vegys (as it does now, and I really do not want to modify that too much)?
--- End quote ---
I'm actually thinking that you would only keep "veggies" in the sim and get rid of "non-veggies". The "veggies" in this system can turn themselves into "non-veggies" by dumping all of their chloroplasts.
A good sim would not need to repopulate veggies (only when the whole system dies off), their population would be autobalanced by the mechanism suggested above and by the natural predator-prey cycles. You would only need to populate it once.
Botsareus:
--- Quote ---Something like that. This would automatically create a self-balancing system of veggies, which could oscillate or remain fairly static or even lead to different life strategies. The exact details of how much to give when - that I don't know, this would require some careful thinking and empirical testing (can leave that up to the user if you want).
--- End quote ---
Good, that's what I will do then. I think the only value I'll leave up to the user is 'feeding rate' (150)
--- Quote ---I'm actually thinking that you would only keep "veggies" in the sim and get rid of "non-veggies". The "veggies" in this system can turn themselves into "non-veggies" by dumping all of their chloroplasts.
A good sim would not need to repopulate veggies (only when the whole system dies off), their population would be autobalanced by the mechanism suggested above and by the natural predator-prey cycles. You would only need to populate it once.
--- End quote ---
ok, I really hate this one, let me explain why:
Let's say we start with everything Vegs, and even give them a starting amount of chloroplasts:
One big aspect of the program is per-programed bots (and putting them vs each other) If we go with this, every bot has to be updated with "on age 1 I need to dump all my chloroplasts" I don't see how that can be an internal staring condition ether, because, what if it is a hybrid bot that uses chloroplasts only after it's first reproduction?
Also, after long long generations a robot can evolve not to rely on chloroplasts at all. What if we take that robot (DNA only) and put it into a new sim? If we somehow predefine that this robot should not use chloroplasts (let's say it is a special instruction in the beginning of the dna file "start with 0 chloroplasts") then the robot is dead because it had nothing to feed on and killed itself off.
If we don't give them a starting amount of chloroplasts, they are dead anyway because they still have nothing to feed on...
What you are basically telling me is we do not repopulate anything. I have spent a long time designing a system where I evolve a robot that can kill any other robot in F1 mode (computer beat human, that I really want to implement one day) As you may know in F1 mode (see leagues) the robots get Vegs. And are really good at keeping there food away from competitors as well as neutralizing there competitors as well. (I don't know, I guess I just have a thing for proving that a computer can out preform a human in a ALife scenario, which will be, basically, a revolution in Artificial General Intelligence) (F1 mode does not last too long if there are no Vegs...)
shvarz:
--- Quote ---If we go with this, every bot has to be updated with "on age 1 I need to dump all my chloroplasts"
--- End quote ---
Not necessarily. They can be dropped into the sim without chloroplasts and then make them.
--- Quote ---after long long generations a robot can evolve not to rely on chloroplasts at all. What if we take that robot (DNA only) and put it into a new sim?
--- End quote ---
As I discovered in my sims a long time ago, that's a problem for any long-evolved bot. You take it out of a sim, drop into a new one and most likely it will not survive. That's because the bots that evolved alongside it are the proper environment for it, it adapted to them. It's not adapted to "being dropped into a new sim".
--- Quote ---I have spent a long time designing a system where I evolve a robot that can kill any other robot in F1 mode
--- End quote ---
The whole point of the F1 mode is to keep conditions always the same, as they were originally designed. You do any changes to it and the bots will not work as before and ratings will change. So, if you want F1 mode, don't bother with ANY changes. If you want to improve the program and make it a more sophisticated model, then you should strive to make the sims as self-sufficient as possible. And that means "no repopulating". I never liked the sims with active repopulating, it always felt like a cludge, made to compensate for the fact that DB's ecosystems are often unstable. You implement this and you won't need that cludge.
Botsareus:
--- Quote ---So, if you want F1 mode, don't bother with ANY changes.
--- End quote ---
But, I like chloroplasts because maybe later I can evolve an ecosystem :)
Ok, How about a compromise?
* Vegy re-population is normalized by area as well.
* How much chloroplasts a robot has at start up is a requirement of the DNA file. If this is not set, the program will ask you to set it when the robot is loaded into the list.
* You can always not select anything as veg and that will mach your conditions perfectly.
--- Quote ---As I discovered in my sims a long time ago, that's a problem for any long-evolved bot. You take it out of a sim, drop into a new one and most likely it will not survive.
--- End quote ---
From my experiments, (and I am referring to explicitly to version 2.44.1) If you periodically reset epi-genetic memory as the robot mutates, then the DNA actually becomes usable.
--- Quote ---ratings will change
--- End quote ---
Actually, the ratings will change probably every time a new version is released as bugs are found or we implement new suggestions. I am planning to do a complete re-run of all the modes after I implement chloroplasts. And besides, there are 25% new robots that need to be sorted anyway.
example:
I still need to fix boyancy, tieang tielen 1...5, and sexual reproduction. This definitely changes the ratings...
shvarz:
Sounds reasonable, good luck!
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