Bots and Simulations > Simulation Emporium
Co-Evolution
Moonfisher:
I see the point of polination, but it doesn't realy seem natural that single cells would need the other species. And when something comes to polinate you it's also coming to eat you...
In the other scenario it's true that the veggies won't get too advanced since they need to take reglar breaks from doing anything in order to gain energy... but considering that a veggy that always moves will still have no disadvantages conpared to a normal bot then I don't think it's realy being hidered, I'm still concerned the veggy would eventualy take over, it definately needs to be outnumbered by ther bots before it starts to get too clever...
And this is also what I ment with the difference between veggies and bots IRL... as I understand it all life forms evolved from one kind of cell, wich I asume is a veggy... so why do the bots at some point stop gaining energy... why are the carnivorous species not able to gain energy from the sun, what happened to them ?
It just seems like the whole gaining energy deal is something that comes at a great cost, or rather that the behaviors of the bots are preventing them from gaining energy. So what is the difference that defines when you get energy and when you don't when it comes to nature ?
Numsgil:
--- Quote from: jknilinux ---By the way, do you remember how you got E. Comesum and A. Minimalis co-evolving? What settings did you use? Did you tweak the DNA?
--- End quote ---
Nothing special. It was E Comesum and Algae Minimalis, without modification. Either F1 costs or I added some extra costs. A little friction (not a lot though), with veggies getting fed 3 or 4 nrg per veggy with a reasonable cap. Fixed bot radii, too. Once the veggies become cancerous, it should be impossible for the bots to kill em all off. Without the veggy repop, the alga in the sim will go through lots of generations very quickly. Something like 10x faster than the bot generations. You'll need a veggy cap to prevent an epic slowdown, of course. E Comesum will keep its population in check pretty well (if there are too many, they'll eat each other), but you'll need at least a 3 or 4 sized field or the population won't be high enough. With speed improvements, I'd go for the max size, actually. The Enitor Comesum are fairly efficient at finding food (they don't sit still like animal minimalis), so you should be able to set up a fairly reasonable evo sim and let it run indefinately. Tweak things as needed, but try to keep the bot population above 100 if you can.
--- Quote from: Moonfisher ---And this is also what I ment with the difference between veggies and bots IRL... as I understand it all life forms evolved from one kind of cell, wich I asume is a veggy... so why do the bots at some point stop gaining energy... why are the carnivorous species not able to gain energy from the sun, what happened to them ?
--- End quote ---
In RL, I think the limiting factor is roots. If you've ever been buried in sand at the beach you know that only a few inches of soil can be really, really heavy. So a plant can't leave the spot it's in. It could theoretically still have muscles and things for the above ground portion, except that muscles and the like have a constant metabolic cost. Humans burn in excess of 2000 calories a day for only about 100-200 pounds of material. A tree can weigh tons. If it was made out of animal tissue the metabolic costs would be higher than it gets from photosynthesis. So it minimizes metabolic cost by using plant tissue, which is strong and rigid and light to hold the weight without being expensive to maintain.
Microscopic single celled plants actually have a bit of limited mobility. But even on the microscopic level plants try to maximize their surface area for light, which makes them so big that the cost of moving through water (which at that size is more like molasses than water) is prohibitive.
ikke:
Last save from my co-evolution
jknilinux:
--- Quote from: Moonfisher ---I see the point of polination, but it doesn't realy seem natural that single cells would need the other species. And when something comes to polinate you it's also coming to eat you...
In the other scenario it's true that the veggies won't get too advanced since they need to take reglar breaks from doing anything in order to gain energy... but considering that a veggy that always moves will still have no disadvantages conpared to a normal bot then I don't think it's realy being hidered, I'm still concerned the veggy would eventualy take over, it definately needs to be outnumbered by ther bots before it starts to get too clever...
And this is also what I ment with the difference between veggies and bots IRL... as I understand it all life forms evolved from one kind of cell, wich I asume is a veggy... so why do the bots at some point stop gaining energy... why are the carnivorous species not able to gain energy from the sun, what happened to them ?
It just seems like the whole gaining energy deal is something that comes at a great cost, or rather that the behaviors of the bots are preventing them from gaining energy. So what is the difference that defines when you get energy and when you don't when it comes to nature ?
--- End quote ---
Well, it doesn't seem natural that bacteria shoot little bullets at each other either, but we have to live with it... Anyway, so long as it encourages complex behavior, I'm for it, and since we won't be simulating anything as complex as a bee anytime soon, I think we should let them pollinate each other.
And animals don't photosynthesize because they didn't evolve from a veggy, so your assumption is wrong.
Endy:
I think it has to do with relying on Mitochondria vs. Chloroplast.
Still weird to think about having a long-term symbiotic relationship with it. Is it part of our species or not? Makes me wonder how a sexrepro'ing bot would do with an asex helper bot, maybe the union is somehow better than either alone.
We do actually use solar nrg to some degree for vitamin E. Pigmentation is probably the only real evolution going on with the movement of people from different areas with differing UV levels.
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