Shadows???

[jknilinux]

The physics probably aren't stable enough to build a large tower with gravity on.  With it off you probably can, but what's the point  

stifftie makes the tie have a stronger restorative force.  If you're familiar with the equation for springs from physics F = -kx, stifftie modifies the k factor.

The point is to get on top of the other veggies, which put you in the shade and kill you. And, like bacillus said, if it isn't stable enough with stifftie, we'll just have to .fixpos until DB3 comes out.

[bacillus]

With .fixpos, it shouldn't be too hard to create a realistic-looking structure, but the point is that you want it to develop realistically as well.

[ikke]

How about a new sysvar to measure the amount of light a bot recieves? This could helpmake plants that grow towards the sun, while not blocking others.

No need for this. Just suck 5% (or whatever the number) of your gain through the ties you have formed. More light+higher suction= more reproduction. Grow toward the light

[Peter]

The physics probably aren't stable enough to build a large tower with gravity on.  With it off you probably can, but what's the point

Why, not. Has anyone tried and failed?
I think you can. Altrough I don't think evolution will take that path. It is just more rewarding and easier to use .fixpos.

Amd not neccesarily, but it would decrease the base needed for a 'plant'. A few small objects at the bottem that could provide grip.(that's an easy solution)

[Numsgil]

You're welcome to try.  I'm speaking from theoretical knowledge instead of experimental knowledge.

[Peter]

You're welcome to try.  I'm speaking from theoretical knowledge instead of experimental knowledge.

But why wouldn't it be possible. I happen to miss the reason.

Anyway, is it correct that gravity squezes veggies into each other. No matter what I do at some time there are a lot of veggies at one spot. This doesn't really seem right.

[Numsgil]

Heh, you just answered your own question   When the forces are strong (like with a pile of veggies being squeezed by gravity, or a tall tower), the physics can't keep things apart and they start to form a singularity of intersecting bots.

[Peter]

Heh, you just answered your own question   When the forces are strong (like with a pile of veggies being squeezed by gravity, or a tall tower), the physics can't keep things apart and they start to form a singularity of intersecting bots.

Yes, I had a feeling it had to do with it. But I still find it strange that gravity that causes a slow speed always couses any bot to get in another. Even if it where just two as I just tested.

The collision elasticity doesn't seem to change that. Marbles really should be marbles. Those don't get in eachother.

[jknilinux]

How about a new sysvar to measure the amount of light a bot recieves? This could helpmake plants that grow towards the sun, while not blocking others.

No need for this. Just suck 5% (or whatever the number) of your gain through the ties you have formed. More light+higher suction= more reproduction. Grow toward the light

Ya, well, while that would automatically make the vegs grow toward the light, it doesn't encourage complex behavior. We want the vegs to think about where the light is and decide to grow in that direction.

[Numsgil]

Heh, you just answered your own question   When the forces are strong (like with a pile of veggies being squeezed by gravity, or a tall tower), the physics can't keep things apart and they start to form a singularity of intersecting bots.

Yes, I had a feeling it had to do with it. But I still find it strange that gravity that causes a slow speed always couses any bot to get in another. Even if it where just two as I just tested.

The collision elasticity doesn't seem to change that. Marbles really should be marbles. Those don't get in eachother.

It's an issue with stability.  If we increase the "marbleness" of bots too far, the simulation will explode after a collision (the bots will gain kinetic energy from the collision).  It's an issue I'm trying to address for DB3.

[ikke]

Ya, well, while that would automatically make the vegs grow toward the light, it doesn't encourage complex behavior. We want the vegs to think about where the light is and decide to grow in that direction.

That depends on whether you want veggies to grow towards the light, or engage in philosophical debate. Veggies grow, no need for deep reasoning.
As for moving veggies reasoning for light direction: move them twice in othogonal direction and you know what up is. Or have them jitter around a vector, see if intake improves more or not, and decide if the vector is better or not. Deep enough? Still no need for sysvar

[jknilinux]

Ikke-

Real-world plants know where light is. I just think DB plants should be realistic, especially if that realism encourages complex behavior. Besides, your new algorithm seems too complex to evolve and is easily broken- shade from another bot could disrupt it.

[Peter]

Ikke-

Real-world plants know where light is. I just think DB plants should be realistic, especially if that realism encourages complex behavior. Besides, your new algorithm seems too complex to evolve and is easily broken- shade from another bot could disrupt it.

Hah, I lost that discussion. Just use the existing but rarely used sysvar '*.sun' would help a lot. The harder part would be building a tower. Well ofcource you can stuck yourself to the enviroment. But that is too easy.

[bacillus]

Actually, plants don't 'know' where the sun is, they happen to grow towards the sun because sunlight slows the production of a certain growth hormone, resulting in the darkened side growing more than the illuminated side. End result, plant faces sunlight. The only problem is, what happens when the plant is dead-on?

[ikke]

Actually, plants don't 'know' where the sun is, they happen to grow towards the sun because sunlight slows the production of a certain growth hormone, resulting in the darkened side growing more than the illuminated side.

Just the remark I wanted to make. No reasoning just growth. This is what I wanted to simulate by the tie feeding solution.

End result, plant faces sunlight. The only problem is, what happens when the plant is dead-on?

Easy: It faces the right direction, and a minimal amount of hormone is produced-> grow to the light as fast as you can.