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EricL:
--- Quote from: Numsgil ---I'll believe it when I see it
--- End quote ---
My feelings exactly regarding DB3...
It compiles. I had to stub out a lot of graphics stuff, which is where most of the differences are. Now that it's raining in Seattle again, I'll probably get back to it in a week or two...
Cyberduke:
--- Quote from: EricL ---Push is the wrong word. I want no code on clients listening on open ports, otherwise you have NAT, firewall, proxy and security issues. The client should poll, which achieves the same thing, just with a little latency. I assume this is what you meant.
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I was making the assumption that the clients would retain their connection to the server (which they instigated) and so by ‘push’ was simply referring to the server telling the client there was a new bot rather than the client polling the server to ask.
--- Quote from: EricL ---On the subject of connected sim topology and the server making routing decisions, I'm not sure I agree. We could do connection topologies today without changing the plumbing, but I would want to explore why we should. Random mixing has certain advantages.
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Well the problem I have had with a random mix is that 1 or 2 bots can very quickly sweep though the whole sim, being introduced very early on to each and every instance of the sim, rather than leaving isolated pockets of species to evolve and forcing the aggressive bots to actually expand and conquer rather than helpfully be seeded everywhere.
--- Quote from: EricL ---You are assuming the thing Nums is calling DB3 is a project that will someday supplant the current code base That is a big assumption, one that is not shared by everyone. It is much easier (and more likely to happen) that I simply port the current code to VB2008 to get threads and move the code base forward from there. I have a version limping in VB2008 as we speak.
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Ah now that’s interesting you say that, Yes I made the assumption (again) that since the wiki points DB3 in the direction of Nums C# page and you said you where not going to be continuing the project in the long term that Nums C# version was going to eventually become the next generation of Darwinbots
EricL:
--- Quote from: Cyberduke ---Well the problem I have had with a random mix is that 1 or 2 bots can very quickly sweep though the whole sim, being introduced very early on to each and every instance of the sim, rather than leaving isolated pockets of specials to evolve and forcing the aggressive bots to actually expand and conquer rather than helpfully be seeded everywhere.
--- End quote ---
You must run relatively small sims. I run really large ones with shapes and physics such that it takes many thousands of cycles generally for a bot to make it from one side to the other, making colonization of immature sims be new-comers harder . Additionally, unlike Terrarium, IM participants whose goal is to achieve the highest population for their bots can choose to grow their sim to maturity prior to connecting to IM, thus making it more difficult for any potential colonizer to take over the sim since it is already fully populated.
The fact that teleported-in bots are placed randomly instead of where the teleporter happens to be is deliberate on my part so as to make swarming of newcomers more difficult. That said, I would be happy to discuss this area further on a different thread. I'm not necessary opposed to adding sim topology to IM - but there may be better ways to achieve the things you want.
--- Quote from: Cyberduke ---Ah now that’s interesting you say that, Yes I made the assumption (again) that since the wiki points DB3 in the direction of Nums C# page and you said you where not going to be continuing the project in the long term that Nums C# version was going to eventually become the next generation of Darwinbots
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I'm not planning on going anywhere but neither can I spend large numbers of hours on DB. I would welcome help on the current code base or related projects (like a server) but failing that, the community has to settle for me and my limited time commitment.
Peter:
--- Quote from: EricL ---
--- Quote from: Numsgil ---I'll believe it when I see it
--- End quote ---
My feelings exactly regarding DB3...
--- End quote ---
Imagine what the result would be if both of you where going on the same project.
--- Quote ---It compiles. I had to stub out a lot of graphics stuff, which is where most of the differences are. Now that it's raining in Seattle again, I'll probably get back to it in a week or two...
--- End quote ---
I thought compiling to VB2008 had a low priority. Doesn't matter anyway, multiple treads, yeah.
Cyberduke:
--- Quote from: EricL ---You must run relatively small sims. I run really large ones with shapes and physics such that it takes many thousands of cycles generally for a bot to make it from one side to the other, making colonization of immature sims be new-comers harder . Additionally, unlike Terrarium, IM participants whose goal is to achieve the highest population for their bots can choose to grow their sim to maturity prior to connecting to IM, thus making it more difficult for any potential colonizer to take over the sim since it is already fully populated.
The fact that teleported-in bots are placed randomly instead of where the teleporter happens to be is deliberate on my part so as to make swarming of newcomers more difficult. That said, I would be happy to discuss this area further on a different thread. I'm not necessary opposed to adding sim topology to IM - but there may be better ways to achieve the things you want.
--- End quote ---
My original thinking was really coming from the direction of combining multiple sim instances to achieve a distributed computing effect, in order to provide a larger more diverse environment for evolution to act upon. I can quite see that if you are not running mutations and/or are mainly pitting authored bot vs authored bot then random point to point transfers may even be desirable.
--- Quote from: EricL ---I'm not planning on going anywhere but neither can I spend large numbers of hours on DB. I would welcome help on the current code base or related projects (like a server) but failing that, the community has to settle for me and my limited time commitment.
--- End quote ---
I have no objection to helping on either project, it’s the basic idea that interests me the most; I am a C# programmer by trade though so its Nums C# re-write that caught my attention.
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