Author Topic: A call for logic  (Read 4110 times)

Offline gymsum

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A call for logic
« on: May 07, 2008, 10:52:19 PM »
Ok, so now that I have the memory taken care of, its a matter of using one memloc a cycle to maximize thought process, I've thought about it and haven't found two switches that could work without a XOR switch, in binary it returns true if all values are =. The problem I'm having is establishing a heirarchy of important information. For 1 it uses a conspec which relies on 100 variables to determine 10 different species and 20 bot friends. Unfortunately it also uses three other sub sets of genes that manipulate large parts of the brain. As far as a multitasking multi-bot, I dont haev a problem since the touts are very fast, I can actually stream info at 5 bits/cycle, so younger bots can take on different memory roles, and so on. The real difficult part is getting a single bot to concentrate on three things at once; conspec, waypoints/maneuvering, and tactical theory.

I developed a gene for tactical theory to allow for any bot to try something against an enemy, the bots that watch could then record what the attempty said, eventually the multibot version could decide a tactic that would eliminate any threat. But due to certain memory settings, it makes it real difficult to build a single bot with three good automatic switches. Any ideas?

Offline Moonfisher

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A call for logic
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2008, 03:08:55 AM »
I think XOR is a valid operator... you can see a list of all oprerators on the wiki (Theres a link at the bottom of the sysvar page).

Offline gymsum

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A call for logic
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2008, 11:05:48 AM »
That would work perfect. I've come up with a flow chart between the 5 categories the bot must maintain:

1 - Sensors (if nothing returned go to mem read)
2 - Mem Write information is stored about a bot of veggie or place
3 - Mem Read (bipassed if 2 is executed)
4 - Decision (returns based on mem write and mem read and goes to any part of the flow)
5 - Result (occurs only after Decision pushes values to the result portion of DNA)

The 5 categories break down into several smaller ones, #2 & #3 actually break into about 5 dozen smaller catgories, but until Ericl makes the propper switches for refvars, I have to put this project on hold. It would be more practical to write #2 and #3 with the newer faster communications, rather than programming in complex switches to make several stores/reads in multiple cycles.

Offline gymsum

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A call for logic
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2008, 03:58:15 PM »
Now is the final task; which is more beneficial to the survival of a species?

Instinct and advantages to weaknesses?

Memory and evolving logical genes?

Or both?

A new league for intelligence must be created, I cannot manage such a thing at the moment, I'm already managing too much as it is IRL. But I leave a challenge to bot designers; to decide in a battle of leagues, to determine what is the best bot design. For those bots developed to identify and immitate/learn stand a better chance against older adversaries than newer ones, and bots with more instinct over memory/logic still hold out the longest in my tests (using multiple versions of newly updated SLim Evo versions and Ant versions, and the pacifist as an evolving veggie); it would seem the delicate combination of both is necessary, but with each gene limits the remaining abilities of that bot due to DNALEN limitations, which need to exsist for this to be a real game of sorts. The genes for memory and logic have been in development by many designers, and now onyl need be combined with the proper instictive techniques that keep a species alive and thriving. It is not so much a test of caution vs agressiveness, but tactical prowess over an adversary to keep the species alive; the development of these two types of bots could produce a simulation where agressive and intelligent bots all work in a system of sofisticated social heirarcy similar to thousands of animals IRL, creating an ecosystem where intelligent bots make decisions to keep all species alive, since biodiversity gives life a better chance. Ultimately its not a goal of creatures to destroy everything, or at least shouldn't be, because other things can be harvested from the exsistance of that species; in legumes its the fungus which provides the plant nitrogen for energy. The creation of two seperate species with different internal mechanics for thought process and memory function create more diversity, and by creating/mimiking different types of thought processes, bots could exhibit greater memory, or intelligence, or tactical, or even methodic abilities over another.

Anyone up for it?

Offline Moonfisher

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A call for logic
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2008, 04:58:41 PM »
I think instincts is more crutial than memmory for single cells. There needs to be a good base of instincts in order for memmory to become usefull.
Like the way a lot of animals seem to determine if something new is dangerous by the way it behaves. In order to learn you need instincts to keep you alive long enough to learn something.
Theres a great clip on youtube with a white guy crawling up to sime wild lions with a roll of toilet paper. A lion comes over but doesn't know what to do because of the way he's acting...

Offline gymsum

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A call for logic
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2008, 06:38:28 PM »
Quote from: Moonfisher
I think instincts is more crutial than memmory for single cells. There needs to be a good base of instincts in order for memmory to become usefull.
Like the way a lot of animals seem to determine if something new is dangerous by the way it behaves. In order to learn you need instincts to keep you alive long enough to learn something.
Theres a great clip on youtube with a white guy crawling up to sime wild lions with a roll of toilet paper. A lion comes over but doesn't know what to do because of the way he's acting...

Yes, and such a relation ahs yet to be established in DB. This idea has yet to be fully tested on a scale similar to earth.

Offline bacillus

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A call for logic
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2008, 02:01:53 AM »
[you]Reality Check[/you]

DB is just a rough modelling of real life; even though bots can become extremely complex in behaviour, the lack of interactivity with the environment, limited memory capacities, abstraction of feeding and communtication through ties and shots means that they can never come near to emulating a real-life organism.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2008, 02:16:00 AM by bacillus »
"They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown."
- Carl Sagan

Offline gymsum

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A call for logic
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2008, 03:14:54 PM »
Quote from: bacillus
<you>Reality Check</you>

DB is just a rough modelling of real life; even though bots can become extremely complex in behaviour, the lack of interactivity with the environment, limited memory capacities, abstraction of feeding and communtication through ties and shots means that they can never come near to emulating a real-life organism.

I already knew this; the point was to find a balance to build something with enough intelligence and the right genes to become the best bot in DB. A lot of DB needs to be improved, but first start with building bots within the current perameters that can process information, currently DB does imitate real-life with single bots, multibots actually use the speed of light IRL to transmit information, this would require a special set of rules to handle the cycling of tie information be equivelant to that speed which would crash msot of our computers in a matter of two or three generations. Life did not create new boundaries to become succesfull; DB is a harsh realm for any life, there is limited resources and costs reduce the effectiveness of bots with long DNALENs. Create within the boundries of simplicity to exhibit complex like behaviors, that was how Excalibur used to be so succesful, but mini bots will take down a pack of Excals.

Offline bacillus

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A call for logic
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2008, 02:06:38 AM »
Just pointing it out for the benefit of those who think a cold is a Trojan horse virus or where the only web they have ever seen is the internet.
"They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown."
- Carl Sagan

Offline gymsum

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A call for logic
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2008, 06:15:11 AM »
Quote from: bacillus
Just pointing it out for the benefit of those who think a cold is a Trojan horse virus or where the only web they have ever seen is the internet.

Definitely a worhty point to mention.