Author Topic: Evolution sims  (Read 7799 times)

Offline jknilinux

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Evolution sims
« on: April 24, 2008, 08:01:17 PM »
Hi everyone,

What is the usual outcome of an evosim? From reading other's posts, I get the feeling that bots end up regressing after "evolution", until they are unable to eat. Is there any way to escape this fate? Thank you!
« Last Edit: April 25, 2008, 03:09:41 PM by jknilinux »

Offline EricL

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Evolution sims
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2008, 09:07:58 PM »
Hand coded bots generally "devolve" in an evo-sim, meaning the hand-authorred code stops functioning over time.  This is because all that hand-authorred DNA was written without context - it didn't evolve in conjuction with an ecosystem or under environmental or preditor or compitition induced selection pressures and thus when the bot is released into an evo-sim and subjected to mutations and selection, there is little or no selection pressure to preserve the DNA as written.  Selection is in operation to be sure and the bot is evolving, but selection is selecting for things that tend to break the fragile, hand-authored DNA - things like faster replication.   The DNA has to come down off that impossible peak in the fitness landscape before it can start it's slow journey back up the mountain.  Bascially, a hand-authorred bot is a super specialized, unrealistic aberation of nature, a boy in a bubble ill suited to survive in the "real world".

Zerobots or very very simple hand-authorred bots are a better starting poihnt for evo sims in that they don't have to fall off their peak first.  There, you generally see increases in functionality and complexity over time though I will be the first to admit we are still toying with excactly what is necessary w.r.t. selection pressures to provoke richer adaptions such as conditonal logic.
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Offline Numsgil

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Evolution sims
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2008, 10:24:36 PM »
Devolving to not eat isn't something that happens often (ever?).  Usually it's the other way around.  Bots evolve to eat everything, including their children.

Offline Endy

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« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2008, 12:39:25 AM »
Is kind of a weird devolution then evolution that goes on. At first it can be depressing to watch the bots' population drop, but after awhile their population gradually climbs again. A simple hand authored bot is probably best, the bot I've been evolving has yet to die out after several days.

Offline shvarz

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« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2008, 03:01:27 AM »
Another way to look at it is "survival of the flattest" (google it for more info). Basically, the hand-authored bot has very high fitness but the fitness peak is very narrow - most mutations break it down to non-functional state. Naturally evolving bot adapts not just to the environment but also to the mutation rate in the sim, so it evolves a simpler but more robust genome, which can tolerate many more mutations than the original one.
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Offline jknilinux

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« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2008, 03:17:02 PM »
What is the longest that anybody here has ever run an ecosim? Has an evobot ever come close to being able to out-compete a hand-made bot?

Offline Testlund

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« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2008, 04:28:14 PM »
I ran an evosim from January or February to october last year, started out with one zerobot species. In autumn I tested my zerobots in Internet Mode to see if they could compete with the designed ones, but the only way I found that they could do that was to increase the costs in my sim which killed anything that came teleported into it. I suppose the ones that was teleported out from my sim got eaten right away. I saw some fascinating behavior evolve from my bots, but no hunter or anything like a designed bot. The ones I ran as heterotrophs evolved to conserve energy as much as possible, reproduce between long intervals and mostly sitting still.
Now the program has much more features and more bugs have been squished so now it might be a different outcome with such a sim.
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Offline jknilinux

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« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2008, 04:40:58 PM »
Quote from: Testlund
I ran an evosim from January or February to october last year, started out with one zerobot species.

I thought no zerobots had ever evolved conditional logic, hence the current contest.
What interesting behaviors did your bots evolve?

Offline Testlund

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« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2008, 04:58:14 PM »
I have described it here, but no point in trying to run that sim on todays versions. The bots would likely appear completely dead or the program might even crash.

http://www.darwinbots.com/Forum/index.php?showtopic=2051
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Offline Peksa

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« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2008, 06:26:05 PM »
Out of curiosity, how many cycles did it run in the ~8 months?

Offline Testlund

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« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2008, 07:31:35 PM »
I don't remember. A couple of times I picked the best bots and started a new sim with them. First it was only autotrophs, then I picked two and started two instances, made one to be heterotrophs and the other to be autotrophs, connected with a teleporter. Then Eric broke it. Hehe. Had to edit out code to make them work.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2008, 07:33:00 PM by Testlund »
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Offline Moonfisher

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« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2008, 07:42:06 PM »
I think someone managed to evolve a league bot to get better than the original.
Also you should usualy be able to evolve a bot in some kind of environment where a certain hand authored bot can't survive.
But I think the point is that when you set up a lot of different environments the "flat" bot will be able to adapt to the environment and changes in it, but a specialized hand authored bot with no mutations will only be suited for a few of them and it may die out if the environment changes too much, and it will only break down if it has mutations enabled. A good example of this is that the top bots in the leagues are often the first to break because of an update.
But if you introduce a specialized bot in the right environment it will usualy whipe out any evo bots in it, because there was no time to adapt, like releasing rabits in Australia, the new bot is an outsider and noone knows how to defeat it.

Offline Testlund

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« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2008, 07:50:31 PM »
Yeah. My evosim could be compared to a harsh scandinavian climate. Very costly to live in. Then global warming happend and all bots declined and tropical bots started poring in and killing the ones that were left.  
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Offline EricL

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« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2008, 08:15:28 PM »
Quote from: Testlund
Then Eric broke it. Hehe. Had to edit out code to make them work.
So sorry!  It was that damned relentless march of progress thing....
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Offline Testlund

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« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2008, 09:25:37 PM »
But it was for the greater good. I'm eager to see what difference there will be running my current evosim compared to the last one.  
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