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Moonfisher:
Yeah it seems like it could be fun to have tie defence genes, as long as it doesn't get too starightforward and everyone have the same 5 genes, would be best if you need to compromize and not be able to have perfect tie defence. I mean sure you can set .shoot to 0 if your shootval is being set to 32000, but that's one fo those standard defence genes everyone would need, and in reality I don't think you should be able to kill a bot that easy. I think you can also do 2-3 cycle kills by feeding and storing body through a tie to deplete energy and other related concepts. I think one possible way to limit this would be to make all tie actions one way, if you can store body you can't feed on body, and you can only push positive values (Or negative, as long as you can only go one way)... same for shell and such.
This way you can make the oponent spend a lot of energy on something it doesn't realy need but you can't just deplete all energy making and removing the same stuff... anyway not sure exactly what is possible in this area, think we need abyaly to join in on this again, tell us what we need to secure against (Or we can always study Etch II, I know there are some mean ways of killing bots in there).
But I think this could actualy end up being some cool changes, try to get some good balance and get those loopholes fixed. I'm not sure how much ties should be limited, but I don't like the way you can kill off bots a litle too easy with ties.

abyaly:
The only serious danger is .shootval.
No other sysvar can independently consume more than 100 nrg per cycle.
A bot with 1k body has an nrg transfer rate of 100.

Also, I like the way ties are implemented now; I have yet to see a convincing argument for changing them.

* I don't like the reasoning that led to the idea of ties being overpowered. I still think it's reasonable for an F2 bot to run the current F1 league (even though it shouldnt be--it IS F1 for a reason). If not an F2 bot, then a medium-to-large sized virus/tie bot for sure.

Moonfisher:
The tie cap only seems to work when your bot is trying to drain energy, if it's pushing 1000 into the other bots tieval and fires -1 or -6 into it's tieloc then it seems like a bot with 1 body size can empty a large bot of energy in a few cycles... if you're an F2 bot you can break the ties, but the alge will still be vulnerable to this... look at Locust, it realy sucks but wins against most bots just from using counter leeching on the alge...
I'm not saying ties shouldn't be a mean weapon, just saying they seem overpowered, there should be benefits from using normal shots in F1 aswell I think. The tie should mostly be a way of incapacitating the oponent, if you want to drain a bot through the tie it should take some time, so you need to atleast use some venom or have another bot tied aswell to disable the oponents defences while draining it.
Dunno exactly what should be done... it just seems too easy to kill with ties... just don't want all new F1 bots to be small and have great numbers and kill only using ties and info shots, and I'm having a hard time thinking of anything that could possibly be more effective or any advantage that could be gained by adding more behaviors. Maybe it won't be a problem if people don't exploit it too much since obviously you don't HAVE to be nr 1, I just like seing F2 bots making good placements in F1, seems like that would be impossible from now on... Maybe I'm overdramatising or whatever it's called...

abyaly:
Small bots have a vulnerability that noone is exploiting. They die in 1 hit. Guardian was able to kill the first version of etch by being very accurate with its shots and using omni-eye vision; the dinky bots would generally die before getting close enough to do anything.
Also, ties can be just as deadly for the one making the tie. They are very much a double edged sword. The exploit just needs to be counter-exploited. I don't see the point making a big deal of it just because nobody has designed a bot that does it yet. We don't have that many bot writers, so there isn't a huge influx of bots taking on the challenge.

Numsgil:
I have two primary issues with ties:


*  They can do anything a shot can, but faster and cheaper.

* With shots, you have to fire a new shot every cycle.  That means every operation (feeding, info shots, etc.) takes a new shot, and thus new energy.  Ties are semi-permanent.  That initial 2 nrg (the same cost as a shot) can do the same as 10 or 100 shots, unless someone breaks the tie.
* Shots have the opportunity cost of not being able to fire venom at the same time you feed or info shoot.  Ties let you feed or tieloc and shoot venom at the same cycle.
* Shots have a delay waiting for the shot to reach its target.  Ties are instantaneous.
* You can feed through multiple ties during the same cycle, while shots really only let you feed from one source at once.
Of course using shots and ties at the same time is better than just one or the other.  That's a Good Thing, I think.  I just don't think that just shots should be universally inferior to just ties.
* They're overpowered vs. slime.  In theory, a viable strategy against tie bots should be to produce a lot of slime.  But it's prohibitively expensive.  You lose half your slime every 70 cycles or so.  I think that should be more like 1000 cycles or something like that.
We'll get richer simulations the more balanced the combat is.  The current settings aren't devine mandates.  Even the very idea of ties as weapons wasn't a direct design but more stumbled on by accident by PY.  Tie settings have literally been guess-and-don't-check for most of the time.

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