The F1 League lives again!

[EricL]

I wonder if the top bots in the new versions would do as well in the old versions, where the dinosaurs ruled, because some of these bots (especially Aura and "simple bot virus") are unfathomably incompetent.

Many would not as they rely on features only available in newer versions such as eye width or .totalmyspecies.

As always, I would be interested in cases where older bots have problems in newer versions as a result of unintended changes.  My goal is to provide as much backward compatability as possible.  Sometimes we break from the past and intentionally change things (such as making eye sight distance a function of width) but that is pretty rare.  If an old bot doesn't work as it should in newer versions because of some unintended change, I want to know about it.

[Moonfisher]

I think Aura fell appart because of the eye range, generaly any old bots using 360 degree eyes are having problems.
And I think the reson Excalibur fell appart recently is because of the reactive armor using in/out, it seems like it's making too much shell and poison and such...
Although it shouldn't matter since it's using the defined names and not the adctual adress... maybe one of the locations used has been put to use in newer drops...
Another good reason to use those free locations between 50 and... 175 I think...
Anyway a lot of the bots should be possible to fix without too much effort, atleast if they defined all their vars...
This is also why I've started to use constants and vars for everything in my new bots, it makes it easyer to understand your own code without spamming comments, easy to change keys or tweek magic values or correct the locations used by vars if they're no longer available... and this way if it breaks down in a new drop it should be possible to fix only by adjusting a few values.

[EricL]

Sorry to continue off-topic, but one potentially fixable source of problems for older bots may well be the change in the eye value function that accompanied making eye sight distance a function of width.  See this topic.  I changed the function that determines eye values as well as making it based on edge to edge distance instead of center to center distance.  This was a huge change, one I'm surprised has not ellicited more feedback.   The specific details of the new formula are in the later posts in that topic.  These changes impact eye values (I.e. what value corropsonds to what distance) for all bots, even those that do not change their eye width.  I tried to choose a formula that was close to the old one for distances most bots care about, but it is quite possible that older bots that trigger at specific eye values to shoot, chase, etc. are not working as they were designed due to changes in the eye values for specific distances.

I am very much solicting feedback on this.   I would very much apprecaite it if someone could perform some empirical compartive tests on eye values relative to actual physcial distance, say between version 2.43 and any recent version post 2.43z.

[bacillus]

The 360 degree eye has nothing to do with it in most cases. Run an Aura for yourself; even if you have 1000 veggies in a minimal-sized map, they die a repro death.

[Numsgil]

It could be the eye values.  I tried fiddling with them in the program once a few years ago and it generally caused some really nasty problems.  Hard part is figuring out a way to test it.

[Moonfisher]

Aura uses it's eyes to know when to reproduce, it surounds itself with 3 smaller bots, but if it looses sight of them it creates new ones...
So when the eye range is reduced considerably it will quickly loose sight of the offspring even though they should be within range.
Guardian also fails against anything that fires at it from a longer range, since it can't see too far, but counter leeching will also work on it now (I think the first cycle was safe in older versions maybe, making it possible to drain nrg for one cycle and then break the tie.)
Etch broke down because shots where weakened for small bots.
Excalibur broke down lately... not sure if it's related to in/out values used for the reactive armor, or if it's one of it's vars that got put to use. (Should be easy to figure out, excalibur is a rather short bot)
And reaper has also dropped in performance also a small bot using shots...
So I think the old top 5 are all broken by now... so I'd guess a lot of the other bots are having problems aswell...

Also you can fix Aura if you want, just disable the broken repro gene (It has 2 repro genes, one of them no longer works with the new eyes) and ofcourse replace the gene with a propper working repro gene. Excalibur could probably be fixed too... don't see much hope for the other 3 though, too much work and major changes would have to be made.

[bacillus]

That does explain a lot.
DAY 18
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Finished Carnatus Orbis. Final score 40.
Status: 17.7%

[bacillus]

DAY 19
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Worked a bit on Darth Shimasu.

[bacillus]

DAY 20
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Worked a lot more on Darth Shimasu.
19.3% done.

[EricL]

I've been thinking of adding a new league option that would add a random set of shapes to each match.  Feedback?

[Numsgil]

Sure.  But I suppose shape unaware bots would be at a rather large disadvantage (would they even survive?).  So I'm not sure about integrating it in to, say, the core F1 rules.  Would make for more interesting matches (would have to be careful that the shapes don't create something like a safe area that can't be gotten to from anywhere else), but if it breaks all existing league bots that would be problematic.

[Moonfisher]

I was thinking ghost shapes that absorb shots... but I'm also thinking it could be used as an exploit by tie bots, hiding in the shapes and killing intruders with ties.
I think maybe just adding random shapes might be a problem. I think it should be more like a fixed map of certain shape, so you would be able to set up interesting areas of some sort...
But I also agree this might just create a need to make the bots aware of shapes and not try kill them or run into them...
Would probably be best to make some tests, make some maps and see how current league bots handle it, and see if you can actualy gain a real advanatage from shapes other than unprepared bots wasting time trying to kill shapes... try to make a bot that uses shapes for something, to see if the idea actaly works.

[bacillus]

I suppose shape unaware bots would be at a rather large disadvantage (would they even survive?)

I think any shapes would be a major disadvantage to most bots, and a whole new series of bot would have to be made. However, the map thing is interesting. I made two slightly different versions of Whirlwind, both of which build fortresses using algae, and raid the other fortress every now and then. I think that with a map, that kind of bot would look really amazing.
DAY 21-23
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Removed double instance of DIN and finished Carnatus Orbis. Final Score 38. Now running Destinatus Preliator.
Status: 20.3%

Unbeaten bots: Ebola, Pacifist, Occura Amplificis,  Multiply4, EtchMK II.

[bacillus]

DAY 24
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Ran 27 rounds of Destinatus Preliator. The most interesting fight was with Pacifist; I accidentally left it running, and when I came back Pacifist lost 4:7.

[bacillus]

DAY 25
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14 more rounds until Destinatus Preliator is finished.
Status: 22.2%