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Author Topic: Bringing back public organism sharing  (Read 18099 times)

Offline bacillus

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Bringing back public organism sharing
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2008, 06:35:01 PM »
Quote from: Numsgil
If someone downloads it it'll die fairly quickly.
Fairly quickly is an understatement. Even the stronger bots have a small chance of surviving, as one bot will have a hard time colonizing a simulation that is already teeming with others. At best, you'll just be exporting packages of energy.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2008, 06:35:43 PM by bacillus »
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Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2008, 01:54:09 PM »
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If someone downloads it it'll die fairly quickly.
Good Point, I never seen it that way...
So the uselss but is downloaded , it dies , then a better bot is uploaded , brilliant.

Quote
I view our current FTP plumbing for IM as temporary, not so much for security reasons as for scalability reasons. The client-server, file-based semantics I'm using will not scale very high, probably not much above 50 or 100 users, do to collisions on pop files and the top bot files in the download queue. If IM ever gets really popular, we will have to go with parallel mega-sims or change to either a peer-peer mechanism with a rendevuez server or some sort of distributed multi-server store and forward system. In fact, one crazy idea I may explore is using an email server as our transport. Given our needs are largely asyncronous, this could work well...
Sorry, but I still did not understand to how much robots the ftp is limited to?...

50 or 100 users * 9 = 450 or 900 robots?
« Last Edit: May 01, 2008, 02:00:58 PM by Botsareus »
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Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2008, 02:51:35 PM »
Size isn't a limitation.  We have gigabytes to burn.  The limit is the number of users logged in at once.  Our FTP setup limits us to 50 FTP users at once.  If we ever had that many users going at once, it would be a Bad Thing.
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Offline EricL

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« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2008, 03:10:05 PM »
Even without the user limit, we would limit out on the number I/O operations per second the server can handle.   FTP is really a poor way to do client-server and our semantics translate to 10's of head seeks per conencted sim per sync interval and this increases lineraly (for each sim) with the number of connected sims.  So, depending on the I/O sub system, the way I currently do it, even without the session limit, the server will go I/O bound at some low number of users, probably fewer than 100.
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Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2008, 01:30:20 PM »
I understand, thank you.
However at some point in time size will become a problem...
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Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2008, 01:25:44 PM »
EricL; There is another problem of having robots fill 2gb. The chance of a good robot to download becomes very slim. I suggest we physicaly limit the ftp to about 200 robots. This way when a robot is downloaded it has more chance of being a robot that is compateble for a givin simulation: Because the search range is only 200 robots and people running simulations will upload more successful robots...
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Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2008, 02:12:30 PM »
That depends how different the 200 robots are, doesn't it?  If they're all clones of some seasnake, it won't really matter which gets downloaded, will it?
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Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2008, 02:13:52 PM »
The idea is there are more legal users then illigal users...
« Last Edit: May 15, 2008, 02:14:21 PM by Botsareus »
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Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2008, 02:17:03 PM »
If there were 100% legal users (which there are atm), then there's no problem, is there?

Do you mean more illegal than legal?  I guess we cross that bridge when we come to it.
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Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2008, 02:19:45 PM »
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guess we cross that bridge when we come to it.

sorry, what do you mean? I have trouble with sarcasm...

(whats wrong with limiting it to 200 robots? Is there really more users trying to clone exsisiting bots rather then upload fresh once?)
« Last Edit: May 15, 2008, 02:21:22 PM by Botsareus »
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Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2008, 02:21:57 PM »
It's not sarcasm, it means that we'll deal with that problem if and when it arises, instead of planning for it upfront.
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Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2008, 02:24:27 PM »
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Fairly quickly is an understatement. Even the stronger bots have a small chance of surviving, as one bot will have a hard time colonizing a simulation that is already teeming with others. At best, you'll just be exporting packages of energy.

Quote by Bacillus...

The problem has arrived...
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Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2008, 02:32:33 PM »
That's not an issue with bad users, that's an issue with the difficulty of taking over a sim when you're outnumbered 1000 to 1.  What he's saying is that the worse thing that happens if you upload a bad bot is that it feeds another bot in another sim.
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Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2008, 02:33:59 PM »
That will be illiminated when we have less bots to deal with. So the uploads of good bots outnumber the downloads of the bad bots.
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Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2008, 02:41:00 PM »
It's not a good bot/bad bot issue.  It's an outnumbered 1000 to 1 issue.
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