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Elemental Out/In Trace

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Peter:
Hmm, I've got a strange feeling here.  

rsucoop:

--- Quote from: Numsgil ---
--- Quote from: EricL ---The array is sparse with no locality.  I've changed how it works considerable over the years for perf reasons...
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Ah, that changes things.  Then I have no objections.  I just didn't like the idea of bots 1-10 being the initial bots of a league match, and bot saying "oh, I'm bot #8, I must be one of the original."


--- Quote ---
--- Quote from: Numsgil ---As for using it to collect refvar information, I'm concerned that it's in all ways superior to using actual eyes.  You wouldn't have to worry about tracking the target, keeping an eye on it, etc.  I don't see the downside.
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You would still have to do something to load the refvars based on a rememberred ID, akin to looking at something with .eye5.  Initally, you would only be able to do this once per cycle I.e. "focus on" only one thing per cycle be that via .eye5 or via a rememberred bot ID.  If you were checking on that bot you saw 10 cycles ago, you would not be able to inspect the properties of the bot in .eye5 during the same cycle.   Yes, it lets you track bots you've once saw, but it does not tell you about bots you haven't seen yet.  You have to see a bot to get it's ID before you could use this.   It's not a substitute for vision.  And if refxpos and refypos are the big worry, we could exclude them.  Hell, I'd be happy to loose them as refvars entirely.  Ant bots could cooperate and communicae their position to each other by pushing their own xpos ypos to .out1 and .out2 for example, but this would be voluntary.
 
--- End quote ---

My primary concern is with dog fighting.  Specifically evasion.  When you're dog fighting, you only care about the bot you're fighting.  Other bots are only distractions.  One of the nice things about the current system is that it's possible to sort of evasive maneuver your way out of a dog fight.  Especially if the enemy in question is relatively stupid.  Something like -100 .dx store can usually get you away from an animal minimalis type bot.  Info shots or venom that cause the other bot to turn away also work.

So all that said, if you removed all those spatial clues, I think I might be okay with it.  Maybe strictly limit the information you can determine to the in/out pairs and maybe memloc/memval.

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Effectiveness in the bot is all in the DNA.

bacillus:

--- Quote from: rsucoop ---maybe the smell sensor could be placed somewhere other than the 5th eye, we have a lot of sensors already hard-wired to the fifth eye
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Depends what you mean with sensors. If you mean sensors as in real sensors, then no; but if you mean sensors as in the .ref values, then it would be hard to put them anywhere else. The bots are "seeing" the characteristics of the other bots. The nose could start off facing the direction of the fifth eye eg. the front, and be moved and broadened just like the eyes.

Endy:
Wouldn't really be a nose, be more like a general sensing ability around a bot. Although they wouldn't be able to tell a specific location for a bot (unless it's kind enough to upload it); they could still have an idea of what the other bots around them are doing or even communicate to previously sighted conspecs.

Be really cool to create true swarming/pack/herd behaviors with it.

Like the idea about eliminating most of the refvars, except for the more useful/accurate refbody/refnrg types.

Errr... With a fair degree of certainty the bots could use epigenetic locations to tell if they're one of the first few. Wouldn't be perfect though, since they'd be in trouble if another bot messed with their system.

rsucoop:
A bot would send a packet; the packet is one smell molecule of information containing anything you want to know about a bot except DNA things. The packet requires a) nothing or  small amount of energy or maybe just as a waste product. The packets would merely change ref info (including the eye returns, meaning a bot could see the smell, or at least sense it/ it may be best to actually use a nose to sniff for these packets). A bot could attempt to decifer the packets for information to determine the next action, but the chances of failure are determined by the rate the packets decday, and the mutations that occur as they decay. The production of the packets would essentially be involuntary, as smell happens from waste and everything, and nothing in the environment should be able to create these packets, unless we want to add smell to everything.

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