Author Topic: Top bots who are still build truely modular?  (Read 4848 times)

Offline Welwordion

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Top bots who are still build truely modular?
« on: December 16, 2007, 07:09:19 PM »
Personally I tend to focus on  certain aspects of bots I try to realize, improve or test and have not much interest in other parts (for example I never did much work considering the control of shoottype and strenght).

However I have certain problem to test this cause there seems to be few bots around that are goodly  documented or neatly seperated turning, movement, feeding genes, repro genes etc and such where I could just replace the old genes with the genes I thought up and then let the bots compete with each other.
So as I have not much interest in building all those fighting gimmicks myself, my bots never ever get into bestiary or competition with other bots.

The result is that genes/ideas that might be a potential improvement or an interesting addition to the current ones are never seen by anyone but the creator and can not be tested reliable.
(For example I would like to attach my beholder movement and aiming system onto multiply's metabolism and shooting regulation system to see which one survive)

Originally the gene depository was supposed to be something like that search the genes together you need add your own genes and test it out but see what became of its seem you can not find one normal shoot feeding gene in there.(atleast I could not)

Offline shvarz

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Top bots who are still build truely modular?
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2007, 11:08:58 PM »
I did not know we had a gene depository. This might be a great resource and useful for newbies. Choose from existing genes, combine and get a bot. Nice!
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Offline Numsgil

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Top bots who are still build truely modular?
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2007, 11:46:44 PM »
Genes aren't quite plug and play like that.  Something complex, especially a bot using SG coding techniques, is going to step on a lot of other genes to operate.  So usually when a gene is posted it's more of a proof-of-concept than a ready solution.  Coders usually treat it as such.

Animal Minimalis is the best documented bot, and is what I would suggest using to test new bots with, because it can be entirely understood without too much effort.  However, even with this simple bot, the 1st and 2nd genes aren't independant.  They have entanglements with each other.

Offline Welwordion

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Top bots who are still build truely modular?
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2007, 04:30:37 AM »
Ah no, animal minimalis is not really top notch you can not polish or test your bots if you use bots that are under the current standard that has to be overcome.

So I will now do what I rather would like to not do, work trough every single gene of multiply and identify its function. Maybe I will even create some documentation.

On that note

cond
*.val20 !=
*.loc2 0 !=
start
*.val2 *.loc2 store
stop

I think thats wrong ----> *.val20 !=  
Anyone has a current version of multiply to check if that was ever corrected?

cond
*.robage 0 =
start
.tie inc
.shoot .memloc store
.venval -2
.shoot .vloc store
.myeye .ploc store
stop

A store is lacking? ---> .venval -2

Attached my first run over the code, was easier than I thought, oh and yeah I realize I am one whiney complaining bastards.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2007, 05:52:05 AM by Welwordion »

Offline MacadamiaNuts

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Top bots who are still build truely modular?
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2007, 10:10:49 AM »
I think future versions could use a GUI bot builder with a 'plugin' genes repository file.

Each plugin would be a txt file in a 'pluginsfolder/functionsubfolder/', the GUI would be like the Species menu, with the window to see the header comments and 'up/down' controls. Then the 'make' button would prompt for a save location, and it would just merge the selected plugins into a bot, comments included.
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Offline Peter

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Top bots who are still build truely modular?
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2007, 01:05:01 PM »
Well, as multiply is my bot, I am going to post too.

Believe it or not animal-minimalis was a starting point, it became better.

You are very true in your statements. When I posted multiply I thought it was corrected, but it wasn't. Beliefe it or not it did even with that awful mistake a pretty good run in the leagues.

Further the metabolism of multiply is pretty bad. Don't use it. I have done multiple inprovements on multiply, where I also found, becouse I simply didn't test multiply really through. Multiply hasn't got a real power. With testing I just found that it is pretty normal in every region and the combination did couse a third place in F2(tested on 2.43). A new version is coming.

I have documentated my mult a little. I will make some inprovements you will see it in the beastery soon.
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Offline Peter

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Top bots who are still build truely modular?
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2007, 10:58:20 AM »
Okay, sorry Welwordian it took so long, was busy with some other more importent stuff.

Here you got Multiply4, right now not heavily documentated. But with a base knowledge of DB-dna you should be fine. Ask anything you do not understand. I should know it, (I hope  )

Edit: Is there a reason everybody is posting SG-bots instead of modular, I find the Sg-bots hard to read. Maca, why are you for example building SG-bots, I can't read them.

And a fact is that it beats F1 and F2, Jippie.

Multiply4
« Last Edit: December 21, 2007, 01:28:46 PM by Peter »
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Offline Numsgil

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Top bots who are still build truely modular?
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2007, 11:37:07 AM »
Aside from just being a challenge, SG bots are easier to defend against viruses: there's only two places the virus can insert itself, so it's real easy to delete anything that's not placed in the proper position.

Offline EricL

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Top bots who are still build truely modular?
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2007, 11:43:25 AM »
Two small points:

The new in-line conditional paradym (and new stack operators) make writing SG bots much eaiser (and if done right, much less breakable by point changes).

Traditional SG bots are brittle in the face of mutations.  Gene compartmentalization provides some resilance to changes.
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Offline Peter

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Top bots who are still build truely modular?
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2007, 12:15:01 PM »
Quote from: Numsgil
Aside from just being a challenge, SG bots are easier to defend against viruses: there's only two places the virus can insert itself, so it's real easy to delete anything that's not placed in the proper position.
Well, I am not sure if the effort is worth it for the extra virus-protection, Multiply has pretty fast defeated  Etch, Reaper, Aura and even Guardian pretty fast. I am not sure if guardian is using a real virus, it was just loading up a virus the whole time.  

Quote from: EricL
The new in-line conditional paradym (and new stack operators) make writing SG bots much eaiser (and if done right, much less breakable by point changes).
I have seen it, I haven't used it for the bot becouse it is most times using multiple conditions and then I thought a simple cond-start-stop gene works better. But are bot created with it even seen as SG-bots, to me it seems like they have multiple build in cond-start blocks.

Quote
Traditional SG bots are brittle in the face of mutations.  Gene compartmentalization provides some resilance to changes.
I there are brittle, then just make modular bots
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Offline MacadamiaNuts

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Top bots who are still build truely modular?
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2007, 12:20:39 PM »
Note also one of the first purposes of conditionless SG's was to avoid some costs.

Sometimes it's still simpler, e.g. when you want to add a 50% random chance with a 1 rnd mult.

For Lionfish 7 I will use the new ingene conditions. I used them already for the virus in Lionfish 6b. I'm up to ~40 genes now and sure they could use a cost cut there. ;P
« Last Edit: December 19, 2007, 12:22:41 PM by MacadamiaNuts »
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