Code center > Suggestions
A limit for heterotroph bots, and normal veggie repro
Welwordion:
Ah using negative values for the cost multiplier? Hmm let me think when its raised it abs becomes less and when its shrinked it becomes more , which fits the case for cost rewarding.
Yeah you could do that .
edit:
Ups just realized that dynamic cost are not really worth anything to prevent cancerous bots from multiplying like crazy and trough that to slow down the simulation.
Numsgil:
You might want to generally reorganize the settings tabs, or reorganize the way they work period. The ideal method would be to have a "basic" screen that prompts new the user for values-- easy to understand and use, but not necessarily complete. And then have an "under the hood" options panel, that lets you tweak all sorts of crazy stuff. Or you could even have settings be stored in text editable files, and "advanced" features would be edited in the actual file.
EricL:
--- Quote from: Testlund ---I think this would be a good idea actually. Personally I didn't have any big jumps in populations before you added this limit, (maybe just a few 100 for Alga Minimalis when they were below the upper treshold). Also with evolved bots they don't tend to reproduce exactly at the same time anyway. So I find it a little unfair that some godly power just point to a veggie telling it 'you may reproduce'.
--- End quote ---
Well, I guess I just have a personal bias against evolving veggies. It strikes me as.... cheating. I prefer to use other means to provide fledgling zerobots with an nrg supply. But, that said, if one is going to evolve veggies, then I concede you have a point here w.r.t. fairness.
--- Quote from: Testlund ---There's room for one more function in the Population Control square on the general tab.
--- End quote ---
The issue isn't physical space on the tab (though we are at the VB control limit on the dialog as a whole - I'll have to move something else off the dialog). The issue is just overall complexity. Too many knobs to turn. I'm with Steve Jobs. I hate buttons. Look at the simplicitly and approachability of the IPod or IPhone. DB has too many knobs IMHO. Every knob is a barrier for new users, a place for erronious errors and misunderstandings to crop up. Somethign to document and explain, over and over. This one would be a doozy! A fertile place for user problems.
Would you guys be okay if I instead built in some interal logic to address this instead of exposing more knobs?
Lets say I enforce the 10% rule for only a few cycles, the few cycles following when the veggy population drops below the threshold. If the population stays below the threshold for say 5 cycles, or say, drops more than 10% below the threshold, then I'll let them all go.
This has the advantage of preventing veggy overpopulation in sims where veggies are just food but allows for more fairness in sims where people are breeding veggies. And, it exposes no new UI...
--- Quote from: Numsgil ---You might want to generally reorganize the settings tabs, or reorganize the way they work period. The ideal method would be to have a "basic" screen that prompts new the user for values-- easy to understand and use, but not necessarily complete. And then have an "under the hood" options panel, that lets you tweak all sorts of crazy stuff. Or you could even have settings be stored in text editable files, and "advanced" features would be edited in the actual file.
--- End quote ---
Sounds like work. I hate work.
Testlund:
--- Quote from: EricL ---[Well, I guess I just have a personal bias against evolving veggies. It strikes me as.... cheating.
--- End quote ---
Hmm... I don't follow you there. I have nature as my guidence when I evolve my bots. First there were the ones that lived on carbone dioxide and sunlight, then others evolved from them after oxygene increased in the atmosphere, therefor I want to start with veggies and later on split them into two goups, autotrophs and heterotrophs. So now I run two instances with heterotrophs in the left and autotrophs in the right sim.
--- Quote ---Lets say I enforce the 10% rule for only a few cycles, the few cycles following when the veggy population drops below the threshold. If the population stays below the threshold for say 5 cycles, or say, drops more than 10% below the threshold, then I'll let them all go.
--- End quote ---
This sounds like an even better idea, or let more percentage reproduce the lower the population is under the upper treshold.
--- Quote ---Sounds like work. I hate work.
--- End quote ---
I've been thinking about posting a list about some issues...
EricL:
--- Quote from: Testlund ---
--- Quote from: EricL ---[Well, I guess I just have a personal bias against evolving veggies. It strikes me as.... cheating.
--- End quote ---
Hmm... I don't follow you there. I have nature as my guidence when I evolve my bots. First there were the ones that lived on carbone dioxide and sunlight, then others evolved from them after oxygene increased in the atmosphere, therefor I want to start with veggies and later on split them into two goups, autotrophs and heterotrophs. So now I run two instances with heterotrophs in the left and autotrophs in the right sim.
--- End quote ---
Actually, animals predate plants (by animals, I mean organisms whose metabalism and nrg aquisition does not depend upon photosthyisis). But that's a little orthoginal.
What I meant is that getting nrg without doing anything creates different selective pressures than the need to aquire nrg through action. If you are a veggie, selection favors being conservative. All you have to do to survive is not get killed and be effecient in doing that relative to costs. In my expereince, this leads to smaller genomes and organisms that do less and less. If are not a veggie, then you must seek out nrg or die. Seleciton favors strategies to do this. Early on this can mean simply gettng closer to nrg shooting shepard bots. Later on, it can select for tie feeding, active hunting, etc.
So, what I meant is that I have a personal bias against the kind of adapataions and behaviour (or lack there of) free nrg for nothing encourages. But I acknowledge others may not share this.
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