Author Topic: Do bots get too small?  (Read 5727 times)

Offline EricL

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Do bots get too small?
« on: October 04, 2007, 12:50:25 PM »
How do people feel about the range of bot sizes?  Are tiny little bots too tiny?  Should I change the radius calculation so that the minimum bot size is larger than it is currently?

How about large bots?  Should the largest bots be larger?  Should I change the radius calculation so that the maximum bot size is larger than it is currently?
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Offline Testlund

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Do bots get too small?
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2007, 01:36:25 PM »
I think it looks nice as it is.  
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Offline shvarz

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Do bots get too small?
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2007, 02:37:24 PM »
If we go by biology, then the range from smallest to largest possible cells is from 200nm for some tiny bacteria to 20cm for an ostrich egg (dinosaur eggs were even larger).  That is a 1,000,000-fold difference. So, yeah - I think we should allow a wider range than what is there now.
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Offline Numsgil

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Do bots get too small?
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2007, 07:14:53 PM »
Wider range

I'd also like a "megazoom" mode that lets me zoom in on my tiny bots on computers with slower graphics cards in a way that doesn't take a full 2 minutes.  Maybe a zoon button with a logarithmic scale.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2007, 07:15:22 PM by Numsgil »

Offline EricL

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Do bots get too small?
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2007, 10:22:28 PM »
Quote from: Numsgil
Wider range

I'd also like a "megazoom" mode that lets me zoom in on my tiny bots on computers with slower graphics cards in a way that doesn't take a full 2 minutes.  Maybe a zoon button with a logarithmic scale.
I sped up the mouse wheel zoom in 2.43m by 2.5X.    I can bump it again if you like.  Logarithmic is problematic because the places in the code where it yeilds to handle events arn't spaced evenly in execution time.  The zoom rate would jump and I fear for predictability.  I'd rather bump the speed and/or make the mouse wheel work right for in and out.

Also, I'm half done with a new magnifying lens feature that will let you have a window that displays whats under it at 10X or some settable magnification.  No more zooming the entire field if you don't want to.  Just pass the window over the interesting parts.  Not sure it will get done for awhile, but it's in the code now.
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Offline Numsgil

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Do bots get too small?
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2007, 10:58:44 PM »
Ooh, neat.

I don't have a mouse with a wheel, so I haven't been able to check that feature out.  (I actually use my laptop with remote desktop enabling me to log in to my spare computer.  You can imagine the redraw rates I experience.  Ugh).

Offline EricL

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Do bots get too small?
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2007, 11:35:25 PM »
Quote from: Numsgil
Ooh, neat.

I don't have a mouse with a wheel, so I haven't been able to check that feature out.  (I actually use my laptop with remote desktop enabling me to log in to my spare computer.  You can imagine the redraw rates I experience.  Ugh).
Youch.  Okay, I'll bump the zoom in/out speed of the button bar buttons next drop.
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Offline EricL

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Do bots get too small?
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2007, 05:06:12 PM »
Okay.  2.43o (out later this weekend) makes a change in the bot radius calculation, increasing the potential size range of bots as a function of their body.   In short, I mutliply the volume of the bot (from which radius is determined) by log(body) before taking the cube root to find the radius.  This has little noticable effect on bots with small amouts of body but has the effect of making bots with large amounts of body several times larger (in size, not mass) than they are today.

This has the potential to impact sims and league standings.  Large bots will now exhibit greater fluid resistance and friction, requiring more nrg to move in sims with such physics.   They will be more easily seen, more easily tagetted by other bots and there may be other, more subtle impacts on tie length, tie establishment range, shooting range, etc.  Being large has it's advantages to be sure, but also its disadvantages.

I hope people will take some time to access this change and not dislike it out of hand.  Personally, I favor it strongly for several reasons.  One is that a greater size disparity in bots allows for a more specialization and niche adapatation, particularly as the environment gets more complex.  For example, once I implement burrowing in shapes, then selection can favor being small, being able to hide in a tunnel, to shoot from cover, etc.  A larger potential range of bot sizes can aid selection and adaptation to niches which require certain sizes, favoring the evolution of body management genes as an important fitness criteria.

Additionally, 2.43o speeds up zooming in and out when using the toolbar buttons (speed now matches the mosue wheel).  Each click now zooms in/out 5%.   It was 2%.
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