Code center > Bugs and fixes
Problems with 2.44f
Numsgil:
I remember when you were playing with all that now that you mention it. I don't think, though, that this is the problem. Pretend that two bots aren't accelerating but are moving laterally together dogfighting. From either bots frame of reference, it should be exactly the same as if they were standing still and dogfighting. Yet this doesn't seem to be what I see.
I've even seen problems with a bot attacking a veggie coming at it, so it has to move backwards. The returning energy shots seem to trail behind the veggie. It looks to me like returned shots have a constant speed that isn't being effected by the speed of their parent. If I had to guess, I'd say that a shot's scalar speed is being capped somewhere. I'm having a heck of a time determining if this is really the problem or not just looking at the program. I might need to peek into the code...
Oh, and you're new version (G) seems to have problems with tie length. I've seen some birth ties that were definitely longer than the maximum tie length.
EricL:
--- Quote from: Numsgil ---It looks to me like returned shots have a constant speed that isn't being effected by the speed of their parent. If I had to guess, I'd say that a shot's scalar speed is being capped somewhere.
--- End quote ---
Aha!!!!! Found it. You are correct. Was overwriting the vector later in the routine. Fixed in 2.43h.
--- Quote from: Numsgil ---Oh, and you're new version (G) seems to have problems with tie length. I've seen some birth ties that were definitely longer than the maximum tie length.
--- End quote ---
Fixed in 2.43h. My recent modification to nrg sharing wasn't updating numties for bots with only one tie they did not create.
Numsgil:
yay
Numsgil:
Things are going great. This isn't a bug, but the internet populations graph has a whole slew of dead competitors (bots with 0 population) that really only clutter things up. I think it's safe to say that if you don't see your species listed, it must be dead. At the very least, a button to hide dead competitors would be nice.
Second, instead of using population as the ranking mechanism, maybe you should use invested energy. How much nrg + body * 10 + venom, shell, slime, etc. a bot has. Or available energy, which would just be nrg + body * 10.
Third, right now alga minimalis is the only successful plant species, but I'm a little worried about some uber plant being introduced that's really just a combat bot with the veggy box checked, or even an alga minimalis with some sort of insane virus. A bot with access to free nrg is just going to mop everything up. In the future, hopefully mechanisms will be in place to allow for competitive veggies and bots to be shared, but right now I think either not transferring veggies, or unchecking the veggy box on any imported veggies might be a good idea.
You could reason that the different sims exist under different suns, and the chlorophyll like pigment alien veggies use just aren't efficient at capturing the native sun's light frequency range.
Last, for some reason Enitor Comesum has existed almost two full days on my computer hooked up to the internet. This is absolutely shocking. There's nothing about enitor comesum that should make it in the least bit competitive, other than that it's very draconian at dealing with mutations (translate the name from latin to see what I mean ) I mean, it'll lose to Animal Minimalis hands down in a league match. It can barely sustain itself with enough individuals on any of the smaller arena sizes.
It's not that Predator doesn't come into the sim. It's that as soon as it does it explodes and dies. And enitor comesum doesn't seem to be fairing all that well outside of my sim.
I'm skeptical that this is a legit situation. I could see a strong bot holding down its home territory against encroaching invaders, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. I could also see an exotic bot surviving in an extreme settings sim where others couldn't. But these settings are about as standard vanilla as it gets. The only non standard changes I've made are to give veggies 3 nrg based on kilobody, a rather long veggy repop timer with low veggy respawn, and a field size of 3.
I just booted the sim, loaded some throwaway bots (Animal Minimalis and Enitor Comesum (if anything, Animal Minimalis should have won the local contest)), and left it alone for two days. I figured some predator species would invade like before. Doesn't seem to be the case.
I'm not sure what the problem is, or even if there's a problem, but it just all seems rather unlikely to me. Either there's a new imbalance somewhere (maybe nrg shots are returning way too much energy), something's up with transferring bots from sim to sim that messes them up, or I'm witnessing honest to goodness biomagic on my computer.
EricL:
--- Quote from: Numsgil ---Things are going great. This isn't a bug, but the internet populations graph has a whole slew of dead competitors (bots with 0 population) that really only clutter things up. I think it's safe to say that if you don't see your species listed, it must be dead. At the very least, a button to hide dead competitors would be nice.
--- End quote ---
Thanks. I'm having a lot of fun with internet mode. Way cool.
I kind of like seeing which bots have been introduced into the connected internet sim, but I hear you. I'll see if I can do a button or time them out after a few hours...
--- Quote from: Numsgil ---Second, instead of using population as the ranking mechanism, maybe you should use invested energy. How much nrg + body * 10 + venom, shell, slime, etc. a bot has. Or available energy, which would just be nrg + body * 10.
--- End quote ---
Good idea. I think over time I'll do internet versions of some of the other graphs. The total nrg/species graph is essentially what you are asking for I think. I'm also workign on a sims graph that will show you the population of each connected sim....
--- Quote from: Numsgil ---Third, right now alga minimalis is the only successful plant species, but I'm a little worried about some uber plant being introduced that's really just a combat bot with the veggy box checked, or even an alga minimalis with some sort of insane virus. A bot with access to free nrg is just going to mop everything up. In the future, hopefully mechanisms will be in place to allow for competitive veggies and bots to be shared, but right now I think either not transferring veggies, or unchecking the veggy box on any imported veggies might be a good idea.
--- End quote ---
Yea, this touches on the larger question of what restrictions we want to place on internet mode sims, a conversation I want to foster in the other topic I started in the Internet sharing forum. Should we standardize environments? Mutation rates? etc. I'm thinking we will have many different internet modes, each with different standards and restrictions, with at leat one (the current one) being a total free for all. I plan to make this whole thing - the choosing of which internet mode to join - be data driven from the server, so we can add new internet sims with new restrictions (multibots only, etc.) without revving the exe. The program will populate the menu dropdown from the server as well as perhaps download a specific sim with specific non-changable environmental restrictions and run it....
As far as your specific question of super veggy bots in this specific internet mode, it's not the super advantage you might think at first. There is an easy defense to prevent such bots from having an advantage in your specific sim: simply give veggies 0 nrg per cycle and rely upon repopulation to provide veggies and nrg input for the non-veggy bots in your sim. Non-native veggies won't repopulate. This takes away any advantage a veggy bot might have outside it's native sim. The veggy repro limits then make being a veggy a further disadvantage (given the goal is max population numbers) as non-native veggies will still be restricted from reproducing in a sim if the veggy population is a the limit. As we change the veggy paradym going forward, I expect there will be additional disadvantages to being a veggy, such as restricting or illiminating voluntary movement, which should make trying this cheat even less attractive.
--- Quote from: Numsgil ---Last, for some reason Enitor Comesum has existed almost two full days on my computer hooked up to the internet. This is absolutely shocking. There's nothing about enitor comesum that should make it in the least bit competitive, other than that it's very draconian at dealing with mutations (translate the name from latin to see what I mean ) I mean, it'll lose to Animal Minimalis hands down in a league match. It can barely sustain itself with enough individuals on any of the smaller arena sizes.
It's not that Predator doesn't come into the sim. It's that as soon as it does it explodes and dies. And enitor comesum doesn't seem to be fairing all that well outside of my sim.
I'm skeptical that this is a legit situation. I could see a strong bot holding down its home territory against encroaching invaders, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. I could also see an exotic bot surviving in an extreme settings sim where others couldn't. But these settings are about as standard vanilla as it gets. The only non standard changes I've made are to give veggies 3 nrg based on kilobody, a rather long veggy repop timer with low veggy respawn, and a field size of 3.
I just booted the sim, loaded some throwaway bots (Animal Minimalis and Enitor Comesum (if anything, Animal Minimalis should have won the local contest)), and left it alone for two days. I figured some predator species would invade like before. Doesn't seem to be the case.
I'm not sure what the problem is, or even if there's a problem, but it just all seems rather unlikely to me. Either there's a new imbalance somewhere (maybe nrg shots are returning way too much energy), something's up with transferring bots from sim to sim that messes them up, or I'm witnessing honest to goodness biomagic on my computer.
--- End quote ---
So, Preditor7 is very mutated (over 400 and counting). He's had couple million cycles and has changed remarkably since I introduced him. For one thing, he seems to operate at much lower nrg levels, preferring to reproduce quickly. I think specieis recognition went away early on and competition between conspecs has drivien this. My therory is that evolution favors faster generations all else being equal. He who reproduces faster, wins. In any event, when Preditor7 teleports in to a fast running, relatiovely sparse sim with high nrg bots, it is at a disadvantage, especially if there are costs. He doesn't have the stored nrg to last long. That they evaporate when they get there may merely be because they are so weak to begin with and can't find food or defend themselves for long in yoru sim, even against dumber bots. On the other hand, my sims are dense and have low or zero costs, so when a dumb bot teleports in, it faces a lot of attackers. When Enitor's teleport in, they last awhile but loose but get overwhelmed by larger numbers in the long run. I may be wrong, but we may have already acheivied the kind of defensable stability we were disucssing on the other thread.
Last night, I introduced Preditor8, which is basically the same as Preditor7, but with mutations turned off and a higher reproduction nrg threshold. He reproduces much more slowly, but operates with a igh nrg and body level, so he has the stored nrg to last and fight when he gets teleported. I see that as of this morning there are no more Enitor's left in the megasim and that Preditor8's are getting teleported back from your sim. I assume they made it there with enough nrg to wipe out the Enitors and take over, where Preditor7 could not.
This is so cool!
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