Author Topic: Come join the F1 megaverse!  (Read 66666 times)

Offline Peter

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« Reply #60 on: October 31, 2007, 04:12:41 AM »
I am not exact sure how(landMine3(EricL)) probably has something to do with it. Wasn't really there in numbers and now it is, and it invaded my sim and whiped multiply3 almost completely out of it.

The landmines probably used the lack of conspec-recocnition at multiply,somehow the conspec-rec just broke, hasn't happened before has it.

After the invasion.
I reentered one new normal multiply3 at full energie 32000, strangely it was alone enought to whipe out the landmine3, altrough a multiply at full energie isn't really one multiply(first it duplicates and the sipling does and so on). So the landmine has in fact been driven away by 16 multiplys.  

Preditor11 died out,   That's a little poor.

I may be a little more carfull, the intoduction of one new multiply has taken care of a pop as I see of now 2000, it was just one multiply.  

Next time introduce two.

Edit:
It has now aleast grown over 3000 bots, and all others non-veggie are extinct.
It wasn't exactly the purpose to kill all others.   But it has happened.
I am sure someone will introduce a bot to let the population of multiply drop, now I may just enjoy for a moment that my multiply conquered the sims.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2007, 04:36:16 AM by Peter »
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Offline Henk

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« Reply #61 on: October 31, 2007, 07:09:39 AM »
I think more variety in simulation settings will solve this 'one-bot-pwnage'
cond
*.DBbugs 0 =
start
.rejoice inc
stop

Offline Peter

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« Reply #62 on: October 31, 2007, 08:24:25 AM »
I am thinking(now get the hell outahere he's thinking)
In my opinon it aren't the simulation settings that take care of diversity, but the diversity of the natural veggies, more types of veggies more types of other bots.

A month ago there was something like a big war between multiply and preditor7, preditor7 lived of a fast moving and reproducing mutated veggie. Multiply of the normal minimalis and could barely survive between the mutated version, when I tested it reproduced much less and in much lower numbers. Much where dieing becouse of the couldn't catch those alga.

Preditor7 could't invade my sim becouse of better skills of hunting down alga minimalis. Multiply couldn't invade preditor7 sim becouse of the mutated alga.
Later on there where mutated alga who invaded my sim killing of most multiplys and the rest where killed by preditors. But if there wheren't any alga transferred in the multiply probably had protected their sim and preditor his.

So hereby I say that for a high diversity it is needed that there is an high diversity of alga.


And enclosed an graphic of the powerful takeover of all sims by one single multiply.(with energie 32000)
It gets really fast to extreme numbers.

Edit becouse of a somehow doublepost in one post, no I don't get it too.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2007, 08:25:55 AM by Peter »
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Offline shvarz

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« Reply #63 on: October 31, 2007, 12:30:42 PM »
Quote
I think more variety in simulation settings will solve this 'one-bot-pwnage'

You mean variety between sims, right?  I agree, but it has to be the right kind of variety. If sims are too different, then they are not really connected in any way. It's like pulling fish out of the water and dropping it on the ground - it has no chance to survive and/or adapt. There have to be gradients of sorts. I guess if we had hundreds of people running sims with different settings, then some of them would happen (by chance) to be the intermediate forms, but we don't have that.
I don't really have a solution to that for now. We could get organized and run similar (but not identical) sims. But I'm afraid we don't have enough people even for that. I've never seen more than 7 parallel sims, and usually it is 3-4.
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Offline EricL

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« Reply #64 on: October 31, 2007, 01:01:03 PM »
I plan to (eventually) implement code where the simulator downloads and enforces a set of constraints when joined to a specific internet megasim.   What those constraints are would be defined by the megasim author, file driven from the server and a function of what kind of megasim it is.  They will at least initially focus on things like teleportation filitering rather than sim setttings or physics.  For example, we may want a megasim in which only unmutated, hand authored bots are allowed.  In such a megasim, I would disable mutations and refuse to teleport bots with mutations.  In another, we may want only multibots and I would refuse to teleport anything not multi status.

This is long term stuff.  It will be menu driven (I.e. a menu will automatically populate and list all the megasims and the user just choses one and the restrictions are applied automatically.)  In the near term, I agree we should have only the single free-for-all megasim although even here, I may add a few constraints/overrides in the near term.  For example, I may override the "virus immune" setting when in Internet mode so that all bots are virus susceptable.  I'm also inclined to do something about people marking their combat bots as autotrophs as it makes it difficult to turn the sun on.  Maybe refusing to teleport autotrophs with eye sysvars or similar.
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Offline Peter

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« Reply #65 on: October 31, 2007, 01:50:47 PM »
Could you add someting like bot-markings, instead of accepting just multibots, unmutated bots. Something like a marking for a bot towards a special group.
A way to accept just the bots in the specific group. For example zerobot-sims could maybe be interesting in the future.

Maybe something name related, everything with zerobot in it name. Or another name.
Is something posible when you'r adding the other options.

The blocking of veggie-figher-bots is also a good idea, as far as I have looked none  of the veggies did fight
That means nobody has cheated that way, but there could always happen something like it.

Is it possible to block veggies, I am not sure if the menu works(in earlier versions it didn't work), and could veggies that come with multibots be also blocked or is that too hard to make. I know somewhere you said that it would be more complicated to block those.

Quote of shvarz)
Quote
You mean variety between sims, right? I agree, but it has to be the right kind of variety. If sims are too different, then they are not really connected in any way. It's like pulling fish out of the water and dropping it on the ground - it has no chance to survive and/or adapt. There have to be gradients of sorts. I guess if we had hundreds of people running sims with different settings, then some of them would happen (by chance) to be the intermediate forms, but we don't have that.

It is pretty hard where to draw a line,one diversity, two connection with each other.
If you get a fish out of the water and into the land the chance the fish at once gets feed and can breathe isn't really that big, that's right(atleast I haven't seen it happen  )



But I would like to see what would happen if you had sims with different settings.

I have a proposition
Ofcourse Eric has to agree with it, but can there of the three computers on, be one with low, one with normal and one with high costs.
Eric has too choose the exact settings, they are after all his computers.
And then Eric could post the settings he is using. That way other sims that connect can for example choose for settings between low and normal or between normal and high. That way there could be more diversity and interaction between bots.

What does everybody think, well.
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Offline shvarz

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« Reply #66 on: October 31, 2007, 02:49:35 PM »
I think pre-set gradients are a good idea. It could be a gradient of friction or costs or day/night cycles. Label somehow which part of the gradient is already simulated by the running sims, so that new sims could join the simulation with settings that fill in the missing areas of such gradients.

For example, if I see that there are sims that differ only in friction and they have following population sizes:
Friction  Pop.size
0           500
10         600
20         400
30         200
40         100

Then I could join in and run a sim with friction set at 50 and it would be reasonable to expect that at least some of the bots from sim with friction 40 would be able to survive in my sim.
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Offline Peter

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« Reply #67 on: October 31, 2007, 03:14:48 PM »
You're right shvarz something like that is waht I mean, I don't really care what the difference between is higher shooting costs or friction or age cost or a mixture. But difference enough to stop the low cost sim from surviving in the high cost, but surviving in the normal cost.

The problem with labeling other sims is that it has to be inplented somehow, and not knowing how hard it is or how long it will take this is a simple solution.
But I would agree to put this on the list of coding for internet mode.

The mean point is just that the three sims of EricL have different circumstances having outlines and possible a middleline, becouse the sims of Eric always seem to be online and the rest not always. And having at all times a bulk of bots.

Possible in the same friction example
instead of
0
10
20
30
40
50

Something like
10
30
50
In EricL sims, and the rest may choose what to take. Best is ofcourse to take here 20 or 40.

Ofcourse can be done with various possibilities. Could too be the sims favor ties more or less, shooting, something else, or a combination.

Sorry to keep saying your Eric name but mostly the sims are between 3-8 and always 3 of yours. Making you the most importent factor.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2007, 03:18:57 PM by Peter »
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Offline MacadamiaNuts

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« Reply #68 on: November 01, 2007, 07:40:32 PM »
Meh, I managed to steal a Windoze computer long enough to run a sim and sneak a bot.

IMHO, the best setting to tweak along different sims could be movement cost.
(you see, I'm not an huge fan of bots that swarm across the screen and zap the veggies.)
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Offline Peter

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« Reply #69 on: November 02, 2007, 08:37:53 AM »
Quote from: MacadamiaNuts
IMHO, the best setting to tweak along different sims could be movement cost.
You want to have movement cost to stop the bots from moving, you want to have still siting batterybots in the high movement cost area, I gues you would get that type of dull bots with high movement costs.

It could be interesting to see different kind of bots in the simulations fast moving vs. little movment. It would be fine by me. It is after all beginning o become a little dull with all bots with desame tactic, thereby I mostly mean multiply and martian tank. A little movement cost could be good.(I hope there don't come too many dull bots.)

Quote from: MacadamiaNuts
(you see, I'm not an huge fan of bots that swarm across the screen and zap the veggies.)
What do you have against multiply, you are defining his mean tactic, what's wrong with the tactic.

Have you got something against multiply.  , well do you.

Shoot the ones who dare to insult multiply  

What do you have against it  

There are really nice smilies on this forum  

Uh, I mean.  

Nice smilies.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2007, 08:39:25 AM by Peter »
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Offline Peter

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« Reply #70 on: November 02, 2007, 03:52:12 PM »
Okay, here is a question.

What is the best speed to run the sims at?

Normally I had a sim with a pop of a few hundred, speed something like 20 cyc/sec. I just checked the out folder and I deleted it, it was something like 120megs that is something like 15000bots. So what is the save range when running a sim. I know I was too fast.

Maybe something to add to a to do list, a limit on the out folder, if there are more then let's say 1000bots in it, then don't teleport any more bots. I wouldn't like to look and have something like a few gigs full of bots. I would say a little waste of space, and often I have the computers harddisk almost full till a few hundred megs(this time I just had 6 gigabyte left  ). That way computers could even crash becouse of extreme space taking of the harddisk.

BTW: Is it normal in windows it takes some time like 15 minutes to clear all files, it was just 120MB but it where 15000 files.
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Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #71 on: November 02, 2007, 05:25:42 PM »
If I understand how the internet mode is rigged up, you shouldn't have any bots in your out folder for more than a second.  Sounds like a bug to me.

When a computer deletes a file, it doesn't really delete the file.  It just removes its address in memory from it's central data storage.  That address is rather small, something like 512 bytes or something similar.  The actual hard drive still has the data on it.  (This is where child molesters get caught-- they think deleting their kiddy porn removes it from their computer, but it's pretty easy to recover since all that's been removed is the file's handle.)

So the time it takes to delete files has to do with how many files there are, not how big they are, since all the file's handles are the same size.

Offline EricL

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« Reply #72 on: November 02, 2007, 05:27:05 PM »
The next buddy drop will apply back pressure to throttle the outbound rate.
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Offline Peter

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« Reply #73 on: November 07, 2007, 03:42:37 PM »
What is stickerbush, as I have seen it in the sim it seems like a veggie with eye and shooting sysvars, insane reproducing(every cycle storing 50 in repro) atleast I found one that was a veggie, virus immune and disabling mutations. And I saw some kind of id system, I am guesing before it was killed.

Who created it and for what purpose, somehow landmine4 is living yet every time one comes in my sim it is able to kill some multiply off before it is destroyed.(It can't reproduce like nuts like it is supposed to do becouse my veggie limit is lower then my repop limit.)

What has stickerbush to do with landmine. I doubt if there are any bots who can survive that veggie that is fighting back.

Veggies aren't supposed to fight back, they just have to wait until they are eaten, or as a smart veggie you run. But as a veggie you don't fight back, that is very unapprociate.

That veggie just don't now what it is supposed to do.

Bad veggie, bad.


Ha, now one appeared and I could find it, here is the dna, there is some id-system involved, probably landmine4 can becouse of this, deactivate shooting of it. And so survive it. Now find a landmine4.

Quote
cond
 *.robage 20 <
 start
 50 .dn store
 stop


''''''''''''''''''''''''Gene  1: Last 'stop' at position  9''''''''''''''''''''''',

 cond
 *.memval *999 =
 start
 .fixpos inc
 stop

''''''''''''''''''''''''Gene  2: Last 'stop' at position  17''''''''''''''''''''''',

 cond
 *.memval *999 !=
 start
 0 .fixpos store
 100 .up store
 stop

''''''''''''''''''''''''Gene  3: Last 'stop' at position  29''''''''''''''''''''''',

 cond
 *.eye5 20 <
 *.reftype 0 !=
 *.memval *999 =
 or
 or
 start
 157 rnd .aimright store
 stop

''''''''''''''''''''''''Gene  4: Last 'stop' at position  47''''''''''''''''''''''',

 cond
 *.eye5 20 >
 *.reftype 0 =
 *.memval *999 !=
 *.memval 84 !=
 start
 -6 .shoot store
 5 .shootval store
 stop

''''''''''''''''''''''''Gene  5: Last 'stop' at position  68''''''''''''''''''''''',

 cond
 start
 50 .repro store
 stop

''''''''''''''''''''''''Gene  6: Last 'stop' at position  74''''''''''''''''''''''',

 cond
 start
 810 999 store
 336 .memloc store
 stop

''''''''''''''''''''''''Gene  7: Last 'stop' at position  83''''''''''''''''''''''',
« Last Edit: November 07, 2007, 03:55:32 PM by Peter »
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Offline MacadamiaNuts

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« Reply #74 on: November 08, 2007, 01:17:36 PM »
You may want to note that, in order to compete with tiefeeders at big fields, you need to avoid the *.refxpos *.refypos angle aiming code, as it is totally useless beyond coordinates 32000, 32000.

Do the classical eight-eyes turning instead.
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