Upgrading the default (2.1) install

[cliftut]

Alright. I got DB 2.1 and tried to follow the instructions to upgrade to the latest version. I unzipped the files for 2.43 into the main DB directory, only to discover that the only thing that was in the 2.43 zip was an .exe. I had read something about "sysvars.txt" being overwritten in this process, but all that happened was that the DB 2.43 executable was added to the folder.

I ran it and it opened fine, but it says that none of the default simulations are compatible with this version. This was a little discouraging, so I've been ignoring the new .exe and using 2.1 to just test out the bots and sims that come with it. I'm one of those types that likes to test out the default stuff before I go getting anything else, because that way I have a reference point with which to compare new bots to once I start getting them. I think I will respect the newer ones better if I first watch the older ones in action.

Are the older sim files supposed to be incompatible, and why wasn't there any change to the sysvars file?

[googlyeyesultra]

For the sysvar file, if I'm not mistaken it's been coded into the binary, meaning that you don't need an old text file anymore. I could be wrong, however. Also, those sims were saved on a version long gone, and, unfortunately, due to many changes, they simply don't work any longer.

[cliftut]

due to many changes, they simply don't work any longer.

That needs to be made clear in the wiki FTP. It would save new users some confusion when they discover that the new version isn't compatible with any of the bots that are in the directory... >< That was a little weird.

[Numsgil]

It's not that the bots are incompatible, it's that the settings files aren't.  The program should automatically upgrade your old settings files when it tries to open them, which is what the warning is hinting at.  Ignore the compatibility warnings, and run it like normal.  Once you exit the program, you shouldn't see that warning anymore.

[cliftut]

Well, yeah, I suppose it was the settings files... alright, I'll try that.

[cliftut]

Alright. I tried, but it didn't fix the problem. I'll tell you exactly what happens.

I go to File>New Simulation, then click Load Settings in the pop up menu. I choose one of the settings files that came with the program, and click Load. Instead of loading, I get a small notice window saying "The settings file is incompatible with this version. Settings not loaded." I click Ok to get rid of that, and nothing happens further.

I tried exiting the program and then trying again, but it still doesn't work. I've started simulations by choosing the creatures myself and it worked fine. The bots acted a bit retarded, but I was expecting that since I'd read the warnings.

I suppose since the sims probably won't do anything even if I get them running, I ought to just empty the bot and settings folders and start gathering more recent ones from around here? Is there any sort of collection of beginner bots for the most recent version?

[EricL]

2.43 is very close to no longer neededing the 2.1 install.  The default settings the program comes with are fine for starting up a first time sim.  No need to load a settings file.  Just add a bot or two and start a new sim with the defaults.  Once you gain expereince and want to change the environment - gravity, friction, etc. - just make the change and then save as a sim or settings file.  Getting rid of the need to do the 2.1 install is one of the things I plan to take care of in the next rev.

All bots from any era should run with 2.43.  Older bots may not behave as designed sicne the physics and functionality has evloved over time and they may not have been designed for the specific environment.   But more generally, this can be true for any bot, even a new bot, trying to run in a sim it wasn't designed for.   Fish don't fly very well.   A bot designed for pond mode won't do well without y axis gravity and vice versa, so you need to pick or write bots that were designed for your environment, be they old or new.  Generally speaking, most of the bots in the beastiary forum should work pretty well with the default 2.43 settings.  

One thing I plan to do in the next rev is "build in" some well-rounded (pun intended) default bots that work well with the interal default sim settings.  They will be compiled into the exe and just there to add or not.  I may have a brand new install just start running a new sim with a good mix of bots to peak interest for new users....

I apologize for the confusion w.r.t. 2.1.  All we really need that install for anymore is to drop some runtimes.   Hopefully I can address that and we can break from the past soon....

[EricL]

For the sysvar file, if I'm not mistaken it's been coded into the binary, meaning that you don't need an old text file anymore. I could be wrong, however.

This is absolutely correct.  2.43 ignores any and all external sysvar files.  They are all internal.  The fact that the 2.1 install lays one down is legacy (and confusing).  We should clean up the Wiki in this respect...  

Also, those sims were saved on a version long gone, and, unfortunately, due to many changes, they simply don't work any longer.

Yup.  Except it wasn't changes that broke backward compatability, it was bugs.  Very old sim files had format bugs that were just too difficult to work around in a backward compatabile way.  New features are always implemented in a forward and backward compatabile way.  The 2.43 sim filel format is pretty solid and well tested, so all sim files from 2.43 on (actaully, from several versions prior to 2.43) should be forward and backward compatable forever.

[cliftut]

Ah, I see. Thanks for the help. I ran all of the simulations in 2.1 just so that I could mess around a bit. I must say that watching the mutating veggies kill off their predators was fairly amusing, and some interesting behaviors emerged.

Now that I've seen all of them and messed around with a few things, I'm going to switch over completely to the new version. I've deleted all of the bots folder except for Alga_Minimalis (which I expect is completely compatible since it's only 1 gene... right?), as well as completely emptying the settings folder.

You know what that means... It's time to go... SHOPPING!!!!!!  
Off to the bestiary!  

Are there any bots that you would recommend? Simple ones to help me understand the code? Interesting ones? Fun/weird ones? (I tend to particularly like those...)

[Numsgil]

Animal Minimalis is a pretty standard baseline bot I wrote a while back.  It performs the minimum necessary to survive and reproduce, and is fairly hardy, if a little stupid.  There are also some tutorials on the wiki that use it to teach the basics of bot DNA.

Beyond that, you can always download the leagues.  They sort of represent a whos-who for powerful bots.