Author Topic: Proteins  (Read 3310 times)

Offline Zelos

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« on: March 19, 2005, 03:34:22 AM »
the enzyme ideas is comming along now I can see. but how shall the bots collect material from the enviroment? how about having proteins that can do the job? ive come up whit 3 jobs the proteins could do, collect material (like oxygen and stuff), transport (like transporting oxygen from a "breath bot" to other bots in the MB) and storage (like there could be proteins that are capable of sotring O2 and then use it in bad times) we could use bit numbers like we do in enzymes. whit this we solve the problem of getting material from the sourunding. how about it? if you like this idea I can come whit things more specefied
When I have the eclipse cannon under my control there is nothing that can stop me from ruling the world. And I wont stop there. I will never stop conquering worlds through the universe. All the worlds in the universe will belong to me. All the species in on them will be my slaves. THE ENIRE UNIVERSE WILL BELONG TO ME AND EVERYTHING IN IT :evil: AND THERE IS NOTHING ANYONE OF you CAN DO TO STOP ME. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Offline PurpleYouko

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« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2005, 11:56:27 AM »
This idea has some merit.

Stuff like oxygen, Sulfer, CO2, salts and the like, don't really need an active mechanism for gathering from the e-grid.

Nature already provides us with the perfect system. Osmosis through the cell wall of the animal. Higher concentrations automatically diffuse into lower concentration though the semi-permiable membrane of the cell wall. To stop this working in the opposite direction and the cell losing valuable stuff to the environment, a certain amount of energy has to be expended.

All you need to gather this stuff is a suitable concentration gradient.

As for larger particles like undigested food and the like, that is a different matter entirely. Why not model a mechanical method for this based on something like you suggested with specialized sticky proteins attached to tiny cilia which can scoop particles out of the water like like a feeding tube worm. I could even make a graphical representation of this in the game.

You could use Shvarz's system to make the correct protein then use .gather to gather food from the grid.

The .gather control could also be used to actively gather Calcium or Silicon as building blocks for other things by storing a different value representing the e-grid layer.

Code: [Select]
cond
'for example. layer 7 of the grid contains undigested food
'check that it contains 50 or more else not much point.
*.grid(7) 50 >
start
7 .gather store
stop

This example would check for undigested food particles in the e-grid then gather them in with an efficiency based on the presence and type of suitable proteins.

I am gradually getting more complex here aren't I?  :lol:

Still the basis of all my idea allows for full backward compatability with older bots.

 :D  PY  :D
There are 10 kinds of people in the world

Those who understand binary.

and those who don't

:D PY :D

Offline Zelos

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« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2005, 03:22:30 PM »
yes, I know about the thermodynamic rules. but still, if that was so, why do we have hemoglobin? why have any blood at all? coz its not enough, that way have 2 disadvantages.
1: its to slow
2: it doesnt give the right concentraion
and why not use something like PY said? well sure you can use 1 command to gather everything, but what if that chemical is poison to the bot? like those who live in a sulfur envirment shall not begin letting all the oxygen (which is now toxic to them) come in, sure it slowly does and kill it, but if we use .gather command it will poison it self. persinal I dont like eating things that is toxic. :pokey:
« Last Edit: March 19, 2005, 03:25:19 PM by zelos »
When I have the eclipse cannon under my control there is nothing that can stop me from ruling the world. And I wont stop there. I will never stop conquering worlds through the universe. All the worlds in the universe will belong to me. All the species in on them will be my slaves. THE ENIRE UNIVERSE WILL BELONG TO ME AND EVERYTHING IN IT :evil: AND THERE IS NOTHING ANYONE OF you CAN DO TO STOP ME. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Offline shvarz

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« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2005, 03:45:33 PM »
The reason we have hemoglobin is that our multicellular bodies are so tightly stuffed with cells and liquid that oxygen cannot diffuse to inside organs fast enough for metabolism to occur.  It is a problem for most of multi-mlticellular organisms.  Even then, it is not the only solution.  Insects, for example actually use long holes in their bodies to deliver oxigen to internal organs.

The idea of transporters is good.  We'll come to that in time.  Maybe not right now...
"Never underestimate the power of stupid things in big numbers" - Serious Sam

Offline PurpleYouko

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« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2005, 06:27:51 PM »
Please note that the code line in my example says

"7 .gather store"

This command will gather stuff from grid level 7. Not 6 or 4 or 15.

If grid level 7 only contains undigested food particles then that is all you will get. If you want Calcium then try gathering from grid level 12 or get Silicon from grid level 14 or whatever.

These aren't the actual things that will be at these actual level. Just examples.

The point is that the e-grid has a very large and almost infinitely expandable number of levels. Each level patterns a different resource.

 :D  PY  :D
There are 10 kinds of people in the world

Those who understand binary.

and those who don't

:D PY :D

Offline shvarz

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« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2005, 07:31:15 PM »
that is a cool idea!

the stuff that is gathered...  will it go into stomach or where?  I'd say stomach.


Also, there should be a possibility to gather a bit from all levels at the same time.  Maybe we can reserve the value of 1 for that?  Many cells do that - just pinch off a bit of surrounding liquid and form it into a lipid-surrounded bubble.  Then that bubble is fused with lysosome (stomachs of individual cells) and good stuff is digested and absorbed.
"Never underestimate the power of stupid things in big numbers" - Serious Sam

Offline Zelos

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« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2005, 12:43:41 AM »
sure we could use .gather command, but still what if there is poison there? how is the bot supposed to know its toxic to it? thats where proteins can come in. if you have a protein which is able to gather O2 and then use .gather then it will take O2 specialized even if there is S in the grid. how about that combo solution?
When I have the eclipse cannon under my control there is nothing that can stop me from ruling the world. And I wont stop there. I will never stop conquering worlds through the universe. All the worlds in the universe will belong to me. All the species in on them will be my slaves. THE ENIRE UNIVERSE WILL BELONG TO ME AND EVERYTHING IN IT :evil: AND THERE IS NOTHING ANYONE OF you CAN DO TO STOP ME. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Offline shvarz

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« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2005, 02:28:49 AM »
I think what PY means is that each layer stores a particular kind of molecules.  So that say level 7 always stores fats that were not used and discarded by other organisms.  You want to grab fats from env. grid, you say 7 .gather store and it grabs any fats that are available.  If you want to grab poison, grab that particular layer and die.  Just like that.

BTW, I would envision that eventually specific proteins will be needed to do that.  But for now DNA commands should do the trick.
"Never underestimate the power of stupid things in big numbers" - Serious Sam

Offline Zelos

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« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2005, 03:48:10 AM »
:( why allways simplyfy :(
anyway, if tats the idea, im ok whit it
When I have the eclipse cannon under my control there is nothing that can stop me from ruling the world. And I wont stop there. I will never stop conquering worlds through the universe. All the worlds in the universe will belong to me. All the species in on them will be my slaves. THE ENIRE UNIVERSE WILL BELONG TO ME AND EVERYTHING IN IT :evil: AND THERE IS NOTHING ANYONE OF you CAN DO TO STOP ME. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2005, 03:31:30 AM »
Simplicity is the hallmark of a good solution.  That's why relativity is a good solution.  It is relatively simple compared to theories of ether and the like.  Of course, the implications aren't at all simple, but that's what we're after here.

Complex implications from simple rules.

I agree with schvarz about specific proteins.  And that for now DNA commands are fine.  Also, it should all go to the stomach.

Offline Zelos

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« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2005, 07:59:37 AM »
I hate simplification. atleast in db, the more complex it is the more options do we get. whit physic it shall be simply so that ordinary ppl can understand. but have you ever read about a real warpdirve driven by posetive energy? very complicated which I loves, gives a challange to my brain :D
When I have the eclipse cannon under my control there is nothing that can stop me from ruling the world. And I wont stop there. I will never stop conquering worlds through the universe. All the worlds in the universe will belong to me. All the species in on them will be my slaves. THE ENIRE UNIVERSE WILL BELONG TO ME AND EVERYTHING IN IT :evil: AND THERE IS NOTHING ANYONE OF you CAN DO TO STOP ME. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Offline PurpleYouko

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« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2005, 10:04:43 AM »
Quote
Simplicity is the hallmark of a good solution.  That's why relativity is a good solution.  It is relatively simple compared to theories of ether and the like.  Of course, the implications aren't at all simple, but that's what we're after here.

Complex implications from simple rules.

I agree with schvarz about specific proteins.  And that for now DNA commands are fine.  Also, it should all go to the stomach.
Yes we should need to use sticky proteins to gather stuff from the e-grid. Maybe even specific ones for different levels. There has to be some mechanism by which a robot is able to choose fat rather than venom or vice versa and custom proteins fir the bill just fine.

And yes, everything "gathered" should go to the stomach for processing.

 :D  PY  :D
There are 10 kinds of people in the world

Those who understand binary.

and those who don't

:D PY :D