Author Topic: Metabolism, The Final Virsion  (Read 3488 times)

Offline Botsareus

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Metabolism, The Final Virsion
« on: March 18, 2005, 06:01:02 PM »
(This Thread is an attempt to organize all the Metabolism threads started into one single thread)


Trough out evolution a robot can fill up to a million slots of Enzymes..

In here I want to collect all the final virsions of the Metabolism system we are going to use. Anyone can Post further Design of the system here (in bold) when everyone agrees that it should be like this.

DO NOT post questionable ideas here that were not discussed before, DO NOT post ideas that no one agrees with either.

From the people below

PY
BAU
SHVARTZ
NUM

atleast 3 must agree with the idea before you post it here.

After we complete the metabolism system , we will code it based on the data collected here.

What do you think is this a good idea? Start Posting... Now!
« Last Edit: March 22, 2005, 06:39:13 PM by Botsareus »

Offline shvarz

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Metabolism, The Final Virsion
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2005, 05:25:53 PM »
Well, I don't think we agree that it has to have specifically 7 slots for enzymes, but I think everyone agreed that the number of available enzymes should be limited.  7 or 70 - that will depend on how exactly enzymes are going to be used.

Also, I think the "make/break" system has been somewhat accepted.  I'll just restate it here again.

1. All physical molecules (including, but not limited to: fat, protein, carb, shell, slime, venom, poison) are stored in a separate array.  

2. A new command is introduced to make a particular molecule: "make".  Making a molecule takes up energy.  Another new command ("break") allows utilization of stored energy, by destroying the molecule and adding to the energy store.  The commands are used as follows:

cond
start
fat
make
stop

and

cond
start
fat
break
stop

3. Ability of a bot to make (or break) a certain molecule is defined by Nums' enzymes system.  The genes above will create or disintegrate a molecule of fat only if the bot has all enzymes that are necessary for that.

4. The actual making and breaking of all molecules will be done behind the scenes through a series of consecutive reactions.  These will be characterized by speed and/or efficiency (no actual system has been agrred upon yet).  The speed and/or efficiency of making or breaking a certain molecule can be improved in two ways:
a) by evolving a better enzyme
B) by designing/evolving DNA commands that address each of the intermediate steps
« Last Edit: March 20, 2005, 05:26:56 PM by shvarz »
"Never underestimate the power of stupid things in big numbers" - Serious Sam

Offline PurpleYouko

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Metabolism, The Final Virsion
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2005, 06:12:47 PM »
I think I would agree that the make/break system seems to be the compromise that we have been arguing towards.

Here is the way I think it should work (without suggesting new ideas but just fleshing out the plan a little)

The make/break system should work just as Shvarz outlined above.

This leaves the enzymes in a bit pattern with the length of the entire pattern being the limiting factor for the presence of eznymes rather than a single "limit"

As an example, a single enzyme will be around 16 bits long, represented as a string of 1s and 0s. (We will actually use hexidecimal to save space)

Possibly proteins can also be represented as 16 (or 8) bit patterns too

If the entire bit pattern (for all the enzymes) is something like 128 bits long, this leaves space for 8 enzymes back to back. However, the enzymes can also overlap, making it possible for many many more to exist in this pattern.

The pattern can be edited manually and will also mutate.

Many of the possible enzymes will do the same thing but to lesser or greater degree of efficiency, so there is a strong chance that multiple copies of similar enzymes may be contained in the pattern.

The very simplest form of make/break should be automatic so that old robots can still survive. This will obviously be very inefficient compared with the better multi-step control.

Old bots without an enzyme system in their DNA file that are introduced into a sim will be assigned a specific set of enzymes designed for average digestion of veggies and meat but nothing else.

If the robot has no specific enzymes defined and the autotroph button is checked then this robot will be given a specific set of enzymes designed to metabolize sunlight and waste into veggie body (cellulose and lignin)

Does this about sum up the system? or are there still problems or improvements to discuss?

 :D  PY  :D
There are 10 kinds of people in the world

Those who understand binary.

and those who don't

:D PY :D

Offline shvarz

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Metabolism, The Final Virsion
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2005, 06:52:48 PM »
About the bit with assigning default enzymes to old bots: is it possible to also include an extra-gene at the end of such bot's DNA?  Even with enzymes added automatically old bots will need the following gene to survive in new system:

cond
start
fat
break
protein
break
carb
break
stop

Or people could just do it manually...
"Never underestimate the power of stupid things in big numbers" - Serious Sam

Offline PurpleYouko

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Metabolism, The Final Virsion
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2005, 09:00:49 AM »
it shouldn't be too hard for the program to search for break/make commands in an existing bot, then add a simple gene like this if none are found.

Of course if the DNA file is subsequently saved then the entire genome including this gene and the enzyme bit pattern will be saved as part of it.

But as you say though, everybody should manually update all their old bots in the bestiary where possible so that this automated system need only apply to orphan bots with missing owners like "I Flamma" and "E Diplomaticus Diplo"

It will completely overturn the leagues but will at least allow the oldies to survive

 :D  PY  :D
There are 10 kinds of people in the world

Those who understand binary.

and those who don't

:D PY :D

Offline Botsareus

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Metabolism, The Final Virsion
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2005, 01:05:14 PM »
We will balance the system out so:

The robots can metabolize a certain gas in the e-grid that will eventually expire.
When it does expire, the robots will be forced to evolve:

into ‘Photosynthesis’ -getting energy from the sun  (33%)

Or

into ‘Hunting’ -hunters that eat plants and others (33%)

Or

 others. (33%)

***

The Enzymes required for ‘Photosynthesis’ are take up so much "enzyme space" that there will be little left for efficient protein/muscle production. The flip side is true as well.

The Enzymes required for ‘Photosynthesis’ are generaly HARDER TO EVOLVE then the Enzymes required for 'Hunting' Because Robots using Hunting need to EVOLVE hunting strategy as well.



We will have almost unlimited possibilities if we balance the system out well.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2005, 01:25:39 PM by Botsareus »

Offline shvarz

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« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2005, 01:16:59 PM »
Don't worry Bots, I am trying my best to balance these out.  The photosynthesis enzymes are not going to be harder to evolve.  It's just that they will take up so much "enzyme space" that there will be little left for efficient protein/muscle production.    Same the other way around.
"Never underestimate the power of stupid things in big numbers" - Serious Sam

Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2005, 01:21:35 PM »
OK Shvartz, I corrected it.

Now:

Quote
Ability of a bot to make (or break) a certain molecule is defined by Nums' enzymes system. The genes above will create or disintegrate a molecule of fat only if the bot has all enzymes that are necessary for that.

Were is Num so he can post he's "Num's enzymes system"

Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2005, 01:30:22 PM »
Shvartz the Enzymes Required for Photosinthesys must be harder to evolve Anyway. Because of what I already explained , If you still don't agree start a new thread.

Offline shvarz

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« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2005, 01:31:12 PM »
"Never underestimate the power of stupid things in big numbers" - Serious Sam

Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2005, 06:48:10 PM »
Shvartz, Num’s enzyme system does not conform or deny the possibility to include this in any way:

Quote
The Enzymes Required for Photosinthesys must be harder to evolve Anyway.

So , I am posting it , posting my 50/50system here , and hoping its all added.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2005, 06:49:26 PM by Botsareus »

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2005, 09:00:48 PM »
I don't see why they need to be harder or not.  But if you want them harder, all you have to do is make the required bit pattern longer for them.  It's harder to match 16 bits than 11 or 8 bits.

Offline shvarz

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« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2005, 10:38:30 PM »
Relax, they will be harder to evolve :)
"Never underestimate the power of stupid things in big numbers" - Serious Sam