Author Topic: General approach to metabolism  (Read 7343 times)

Offline PurpleYouko

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General approach to metabolism
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2005, 05:15:05 PM »
Just like any other robot.

The only difference is that you will need to design, copy, mutate or otherwise adjust the enzyme bit pattern to be able to interact with the e-grid in the way that you want.

There will be millions of variations to the enzyme bit pattern so some of them will work. You just need to find the right ones. After you find the right short pattern then you can build it into any long pattern file that you like.

The system is simple on the surface yet can become very complicated if you want to get deep into it. The fine tuning implications are absolutely phenomenal

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Offline PurpleYouko

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« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2005, 05:19:22 PM »
Quote
(This robot is not a plant or a hunter, It eats a gas that slowly runs out in the e-grid)

For this to work you would have to be able to

1  Be able to read the e-grid. That is in the plans for the sysvars.

2  Assume that the robot will mutate before the food supply is exhausted

3  Have another species that metabolizes in the opposite direction so that the gas on which the first species feed, is the waste product of the second species. Maybe a plant that changes sunlight to methane. Any route is possible, not just real ones.

Either way it will all be automatic. the only thing that DNA will control is locating the best pockets of food gas.

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« Last Edit: March 18, 2005, 05:19:37 PM by PurpleYouko »
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Offline Botsareus

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General approach to metabolism
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2005, 05:21:47 PM »
No , I Dont want to mutate a bot that feeds on the grid, I want a bot a simple bot to start with , and to evolve it into using sun light , or hunting for food.

The DNA I had in mind was somthing like

cond
*.nrg
3000
>
Start
'reproduce
store
Stop
Cond
Start
20
*.feedongas
Stop

Then I will watch this robot develope Photosinthasize(speller) or hunting strategy.

Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2005, 05:22:31 PM »
Whats the DNA you have in mind , post it here.

If its more then DNA , post the DNA an the OTHER SETTING as well.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2005, 05:23:38 PM by Botsareus »

Offline PurpleYouko

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« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2005, 05:22:43 PM »
I could see this working as a small group of methane producing veggies slowly releasing methane to the e-grid.

Then a few robots that feed on methane will gradually converge on the veggies location then sit peacefully around them while they feed on the plentiful gas.

One of them might mutate the ability to live on a different gas and move out to a new place to start another colony.

Cool eco-system without a single DNA controlled enzyme in sight.

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Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2005, 05:25:20 PM »
I was thinking "Hunter Robots" can eat the plants "Directly"

P.S.

You still did not post any dna or settings...

Offline PurpleYouko

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« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2005, 05:35:26 PM »
OK here is a simple robot with a possible enzyme array.

Just an idea. I haven't entirely worked out the best way to read the grid yet

Code: [Select]
' reads the grid one ahead. If it has more stuff than this one then move ahead
cond
*.gridahead *.grid >
start
1 .up store
stop

cond
*.nrg 6000 >
start
50 .repro store
stop
end

enzyme ff12b56cae

All this will do is move straight ahead, constantly feeding from the e-grid using its enzymes

I have no idea what this enzme number will contain but the chances are that it will have one or two useful enzymes in it. The enzyme coding hasn't been worked out yet.

Imagine that 2b56c represents an enzyme that is pretty good at extracting methane from the egrid. It will constantly work based on the present concentration of the methane at the bot's current location.

Maybe 22b56 is another enzyme that is able to extract energy from sunlight. This robot doesn't have it right now but a small mutation of the enzyme pattern will easily enable it for the next generation.

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Offline PurpleYouko

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« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2005, 05:38:21 PM »
Quote
I was thinking "Hunter Robots" can eat the plants "Directly"

P.S.

You still did not post any dna or settings...

1 yes they can if their DNA includes shooting and if they carry the right enzyme to digest plant material

2 Dude! Give me a chance! I do have a life outside of DB you know. And it involves working!

 :rolleyes:  PY  :rolleyes:
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Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2005, 05:39:33 PM »
ok , nice , code it , code it. take a week off and then code it.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2005, 05:42:14 PM by Botsareus »

Offline PurpleYouko

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« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2005, 05:44:24 PM »
As I said with my two possible options, the shot will either return pure energy after pre-digesting a small part of the target or it will return undigested material that the robot will process internally.

As it is now, a robot without -1 shoot store can evolve it but is not that likely to.

All a robot would need in additin to this is the correct (or one of the many correct yet differently efficient) enzymes that will allow it to metabolize fat, protein, lignin(trees) or cellulose(leaves) or any of the other myriad things that a bot could specialize in.

Without the correct enzyme a shot will just return a bunch of useless material .

Anyway. Gotta go home now.

Catch ya all later.... maybe

 :outahere: PY  :outahere:
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Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2005, 05:47:56 PM »
Quote
As it is now, a robot without -1 shoot store can evolve it but is not that likely to.

I think it must be %50 as likely to become a plant and %50 as likely to become a "hunter witch uses .shoot"

Not sure how to work it out yet , any bright minds out there can help me out?

Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2005, 06:04:40 PM »
I know: Make enzymes that digest plant material and "meat" cheaper then enazymes that feed on gases and sunlight.

Everyone agree? That gives us the 50%/50% I was looking for.

Offline Anonomous Guest Person

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« Reply #27 on: March 18, 2005, 06:12:24 PM »
Erm. May I say something? If not, then tough. :P
Anyway... I think that we need simplicity. Variability, but simplicity.
And I personally think it wouldn't be much of an improvement to make enzymes automatic.
If real organisms actually create enzymes automatically, without any influence from their DNA, then I'd be rather surprised, as well.

Personally, I think digestion should be handled by genes. So what if all the bots go obsolete? Have you seen how pathetic I Flamma is? When I first got this program, I was amazed by how dangerous it was, but now it's sorta crappy.
And also, we are going from 2.35 to 3.0, which is a rather large jump. Either way, bots'll become rather obsolete.
Even my two uberfied bots Duo Minimalis and Deathgrip, will probably need to be rewritten!

Anyway, I'd much rather like it if DNA handled digestion. It'd put more challenge into it!

And also, other then making it a bit easier to program (and I don't think it'd be that much harder to make digestion manual), what advantages do automatic enzymes have?
I don't even think it's really lifelike.

Now, if you propose that we do some kind of system where a bot gets up to 10 enzymes, which their DNA can control, but can't modify, that'd be pretty neat.
In fact, that's not a bad idea.

Offline shvarz

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« Reply #28 on: March 18, 2005, 06:21:24 PM »
Concentrate people!  If you have your own idea on how to do this stuff, just start another topic.  Seriously, it distracts a lot.

Anyway, PY - you said it right, I want break-make commands to be operators.  And very complex ones.  They should check whether enzyme is available, adjust for enzyme amount, adjust for enzyme efficiency, then consult metabolism sytem and perform actions on several cells - the molecule (or several) that comes in, the molecule(s) that come out, energy.

I know this may be a lot of coding.  But as I said, once set up, this system will have a very long life, will be backwards compatible and easy to use.
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Offline PurpleYouko

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« Reply #29 on: March 18, 2005, 07:36:33 PM »
OK Shvarz

I think you have a valid point and coding the controls for the stuff into the operators would certainly get around a lot of the perceived problems.

Your make break stuff would work pretty well with my proposed atomated enzymes. As you said, the program would take your "make" or "break" operator then find the best available enzyme to carry out the process. It would then perform the action using the efficiency of the enzyme that it finds.

I still don't really like the idea of making actual enzymes ahead of time.

Using this system outlined above and in your earlier post, I still think the enzymes should be created on demand automaticaly.

Now to figure out how to actually code this stuff

 :D  PY  :D
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