Code center > Bug reports
league out of memory error
Jez:
Griz,
(seeing as you ninja posted me! )
Thanks for providing a guide to finding one of the error.sim bits, I shall go find that, can't see me wanting to recompile the code so I can forget about it then till next source drop.
This wiki thingy; I have to admit that when I last returned to DB that updating the wiki was one of the top things on my to do list. Since then it has been buried under lots of other DB related to do things.
People like Eric or PY or Nums, while being the best people to do this, have lots of other things to do as well. It's like the first bestiary list, the one I am now trying to integrate into the existing bestiary, I created it by spending time surfing the old forums and collecting all the posted bots into one place.
While I would love to drag Eric away from his endless bug fixing to do a wiki update; I would also hate the time he spent updating the wiki as time lost for improving the game. (I.e. league improvements)
I think our programming clique are spending their time well, by improving DB, and that the more menial record keeping tasks are something that we can help with. (part of the reason I have offered to help with the bug location, seems silly for us to spend a day or two running a sim only to find a bug if Eric then has to spend the next 4 days locating the same bug so he can fix it!)
If you are volunteering to garner relevant bug location 'how to' advice and, even if it's just a copy/paste to begin, drop it into the wiki page you mentioned then you have my support, we can link it from the forum as well. I hope you do this, it would be cool to have all the advice in one place, even if someone has to come along after and do some minor editing it is quicker than them writing something from scratch.
If we ask the relevant, amateur questions, (in the forum which peeps who know will answer) then I think we are in the best postion to create an amateur 'how to' guide.
If there is anything I can do to help, as a non programming dude, then just say, I would be happy to assist.
Edit
Can I edit the source code while I am running a DB debugger? Or would I have to stop or pause DB first? (few hrs into F1 league rerun under debugger so quick answer appreciated if I have to stop it.)
Edit
What is the immediate window for?
Griz:
for searching ...
click on the 'binocular' icon on the VB toolbar ...
select what you want to search ... in this case 'project'.
that will step you thru all the moduals.
I found 5 error.sims ...
don't think I missed any ...
the only one seems relevant is the one I posted.
I haven't yet been able to sus out setting breakpoints either.
I hear ya about pulling PY/Nums/Eric away from what they are doing.
it would be great to be able to give them a hand debugging ...
but I'm certainly not any good at tracing back a problem to
it's source.
about all I can contribute is to locate where a variable is out
of range or some such thing ...
take that data and document in which modual and sub and
line it shows up.
the wiki idea was about keeping everything in one place ...
where everybody would have access to it ...
to the code and the changes made ...
which would then allow them to edit the code and recompile
themselves ...
in addition to being introduced to thr DB code and how it works.
how we want to do that ...
is up for grabs ...
I just started in hoping I would get some feedback as to how
we might go about it ...
but I don't think anyone ever even looked at any of it.
there were never any comments or anything ...
and it was a lot of work.
so I just gave it up.
how about this:
seeing we are playing with leagues right now ...
what if I go ahead and put the league code on the wiki?
then we can go thru it and have a place to ask questions
about the code, document bug fixes, ect ...
just as a way to perhaps begin ...
to see what kind of format we might be able to come up
with for debugging ...
as in the process I'm certain we will begin to pick up how
both VB and DB works.
that's what I'm interested in.
and hopefully eric/nums/py/others ...
might also give us some VB/Debugging tips on some page
there as well to get us started.
well ... that's the plan ...
in addition to the Debug page that's already there ...
http://www.darwinbots.com/WikiManual/index...title=DeBugging
where we can ask debugging questions ...
I'll do a page for League Code ...
http://www.darwinbots.com/WikiManual/index.php?title=Leagues
and we will see where it goes from there, eh?
If nothing else ...
'I' intend to learn something about VB/DB.
ah ... editing ... I would think you have to stop VB to do that.
immediate window and other windows?
I ain't got a clue.
all this can go on the wiki on the Debugging page ...
I'll put it there as we find out.
and/or anyone who knows can go there and put it in ...
or raise any other questions.
doesn't matter what one puts there ...
it can all be edited.
so yeah jez ...
you can be a big help at the wiki ...
play with learning the wiki code/editing ...
I recall making a 'sandbox' page there for just such 'playing around'.
http://www.darwinbots.com/WikiManual/index.php?title=Sandbox
Jez:
--- Quote ---for searching ...
click on the 'binocular' icon on the VB toolbar ...
--- End quote ---
Honest guv, I knew there was a way to do this and Eric wasn't telling me to hand search 20k lines of code.
We don't need to trace a problem back to its source, just give them a better starter point. They are the programmers and that's all, hopefully, they need to shorten their job. (As the estate agents say "Location location location")
I am all for having a Wiki, that is the first thing I referred to when I wrote my last bots, unfortunately I had to update some of the information and surf the forum's for the updated info before it was useful.
Everything in one place, as I tried to do with the original bestiary, is a great goal. Unluckily we don't have someone who is willing to spend time keeping the 'newbie info' upto date. It was a goal I set myself, upon my return, that I failed to live up to, especially when I got made a mod and got my sticky fingers into the bestiary!
I think part of the reason your page never got any hits/feedback was that it wasn't linked via a sticky or whatever in a relevant part of the forum. There is a sticky on debugging that I think I linked to earlier, it doesn't contain the info contained in all the links we have had in this topic though. (Can be changed)
I never noticed it when I was searching the forums for 'how to debug' info for instance.
Personally I wouldn't bother with a 'how to understand the code' we can't expect to provide peeps with a VB tutorial. Just give us the info, in one place, of how to provide the most relevant debugging info to the programmers. Understanding VB code is another topic, (should you be brave enough).
I have gave up, long agoe. expecting recognition for the time I have spent modifiying the forums or information, you may have noticed how thankful our programmers are for recognition of the effort they have spent fixing stuff, they don't get much and they spend a lot of time, behind the scenes, fixing it.
I sort of expected to get lots of extra post credits as well, re-sorting the bestiary/leagues, but instead most of my effort has been editing other peeps posts and running ...days long sims that crash before they finish!
Think carefully before you offer to do something for the DB experience, what I volunteered for has already proved to be 10X more work than I expected. An amateur guide to running the debugger is magnitudes different to getting untrained peeps to understand what the code means.
I would love to know that someone took an active interest in adding forum info to the wiki though. I really am hoping that you take an interest in this, so far unfufilled, goal.
Wiki has never seemed a sucessful place to ask questions or discuss things, that has always been more evident on the forums and lacked the proper feedback into the Wiki.
I will play more with the VB debugger, I am running a F1 rerun sim atm, hope that not removing the error.sim bits won't handicap me locating the bugs.
'though the effort might seem vain
it would not be the same
if the people in the wings
did not do their magic things
fix the broken stuff
make it work 'oh well enough'
rescue the idea
make it all more plain'
Griz:
the wiki stuff is my idea for learning DB/VB myself ...
a place to ask questions as they arise ...
to have it documented/archived, if you will ...
so that would then benefit anyone else who happened
along wondering the same thing.
in fact, wiki's are all about that ...
group participation.
but I'm a novice at it VB and debugging ...
so I need to have a little feedback ...
a little help, ie ... someone with answers
to the questions ...
or I don't get to learn anything either.
so that just never happened there ...
sometimes I don't think anyone knows the wiki exists.
I've linked to it many times in the past ...
but you'd be hard pressed to find them here ...
and never had any indication that anyone ever
even went to look.
a lot of folks did a lot of work there documenting
robot DNA and all the commands ...
Ollj was a major contributor ...
but I don't know if anyone actually used any of it ...
or that people even know it's there.
so I have no problem doing the grunt work of getting
the wiki pages set up so they can be a good source
of information ... and organizing that info ...
but if no one is going to participate in that ...
if no one is going to use it ...
then there's really not much point.
another thing was ...
it was mostly about VB code ...
and as soon as it was decided to go to C++ or whatever ...
interest in VB seemed to end ...
at least up until Eric began sorting it out.
that's what brought me back ...
otherwise it was going to be a dead end for me.
anyway ...
if I can get someone to answer some of the questions
as they come up ... to help some of us get up to speed
on debugging so we can lend a hand there ...
great.
we will see.
we need to get PY interested in 2.4.X ...
I don't think he liked abandoning 2.47 ...
and all of the bots he had worked so hard on.
so it goes
Griz:
oh yeah ...
1st problem I encountered with looking at
the code for leagues ...
man ... it's all over the place!
so I'm still searching to find where it lives
in the moduals ...
to see if I can get some idea of how it does
everything it does.
so any code snippets you find ... please add them to: http://www.darwinbots.com/WikiManual/index.php?title=Leagues
and I'll try to sort it out as we go.
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