Bots and Simulations > Evolution and Internet Sharing Sims
Zerobot sims
Jez:
There's no reason to wait till next year, if you are all running these sims now, even if they are bugged, it'll just help find the bugs quicker. No reason that you can't start another zerobot from scratch next year.
The (Proto) Zerobot league Rules:
1. A zerobot has originated from something with just zero's (any length).
2. Any bot in the league can be further evolved by anybody else, (means you can use bots that have already evolved .repro)(unless individual bots have amount of cycles their family evolved you can't prove that an individuals code has evolved that long, seems pointless to insist on min evo cycles before bot is valid)
3. Entries need some sort of name/description that helps describe their geneology (you lot decide what details they are going to need)
4. Hand editing of DNA strictly forbidden!
5. No genetic contamination from other bots! (other zerobot species added to sim ok?)
5. Can deliberately kill as many bots as you like and change the enviroment as much as you wish.
6. You lot decide what the settings for league should be (you'll need to save this to a settings file as can't set in same way as F1 atm)
7. Till you all decide on a better one, non mutating, traditional algae will be used for league.
8. Top bot will be most competitive or longest surviving. (If it's 50/50 for too long top bot stays top)
Will check leagues topic and post how to run leagues if not there.
Bots will be put in Mutated part of Bestiary with (ZB) added to title for ID
If I can work out how to do it I'll start a new sub forum just for this, if not then an admin will need to.
(almost a quote) Although it will take the form of a competitive league, the overall goal will be to push the cutting edge of naturally evolved bots as far as it will stretch.
EDIT
I can't add new or change old topics, (nor move posts it seems) until one of our angelic admins sets up a zerobot topic for the leagues all info will be in the F1 leagues forum and entries should be put in the starting gate as normal. (A zerobot evolved to use .repro would be good)
How to run leagues has also been posted in the F1 forum.
Zinc Avenger:
After some consideration I've decided that the reason why bots don't evolve to use eyes is because the data returned by eyes requires processing to be meaningful.
In order for the dna to do something with the eyes, it first has to access the eye value, which is reasonable and I'm sure happens as often as accessing any other read-only sysvar. The problem then is that the bot needs to then evolve something useful to do immediately after, and make it conditional on the value of the eye. Dna seems to have real difficulty evolving conditional structures, instead relying on invalid inputs to turn off actions (like earlier in this thread, my example which stored negative numbers into .repro until it hit a positive valid number). The problem with this seems to be that the range of returns which an eye can vary so considerably that the chances of evolving useful processing to make sense of it is slim, there's no practical way to evolve a structure that can take a positive integer from zero to the upper limit of eye returns (can't remember what it is off the top of my head... d'oh!) and massage it so it comes out as a -1 or -6 for shoot, or a value to store in .sx or whatever. It is far easier for bots to evolve a continual shooting structure or a random search pattern than it is for a bot to actually use its eyes.
I'm all for sophistication, but perhaps in this case adding an alternative eye would be useful. I have no doubt that given sufficient time and evolutionary pressure we will evolve something that uses eyes properly. I do have doubts that this will happen without billions of cycles of evolution.In what we laughingly call the real world, simpler organisms use much simpler eyes than the complex ones you're currently reading this post with. While less capable than complex eyes they are useful, particularly as they don't require the processing that complex eyes require.
So would it be a good idea to add something similar to DB? Something like four eyes (forward, back, left, right) which just return a true or false (1 or 0) if they can see something. This way simple eyes would not be able to replace standard eyes (particularly if they cover such a large angle) but they would be able to supplement them in a hand-coded bot, particularly if unlike standard eyes they're reset to 0 when there's nothing in view.
What do you think?
Testlund:
I think I agree with this, just 4 eyes in 4 directions. I imagine the eyes not as real eyes, more like sensing organs to smell or taste the environment. If the bot encounters something it should only be able to tell if it's a different species, conspecies or a shape and then decide how to act, like turn to attack it or move away from it. But if it wants to feed on something it sees it must be able to approach it so it can aim at it properly. Just 4 eyes whould need to have a large vision radius to be useful.
But I'm also a little curious how the eyes as they are now will cause the bots to evolve. I found I have bots with both the old static coneshaped vision radius and others with the new moving eyes.
Numsgil:
Part of the problem is that eyes don't really return a good range. Most sysvars have a meaningful value in [-1000, 1000]. I've certainly seen rnd being used in genes, so I don't see why eyes wouldn't be used as a source of random numbers if nothing else (other than that its easier to use rnd than to read back specific memory locations).
MacadamiaNuts:
Yo. I was concerned too by the eyes problem as during my last zerosim I didn't see even one eye sysvar in any bot.
The problem I think is that the eyes sysvars are placed in a bad range. There aren't many consistent ways to get a 500 - 509 values to store in. If eye5 was sysvar 1 it would be as common as .up is currently in evolved bots.
I would like a second set of eye vars in as lower as possible sysvar values... maybe an eye that matches the bot colors versus the light intensity (for pond mode) and returns the visibility. 255+255+255 is the most visible in 0 light, while 0+0+0 would be the most visible in full light.
Oh, and here's one of the zerobots in my sim now. It's running as heterotroph under about 30% the F1 costs (dynamic, plus increasing age cost), with very high mutation rates, fixed shot energy and zero costs below 30. The sim is the smallest size, with 60 zero veggies. Bot population moves between 35 and 50. Dunno how much time it has been running, since I manually selected bots and restarted it several times.
Basically it moves forward eating whatever crosses its path and creates 1 average offspring per 150 cycles.
--- Code: ---Removed: I'll post a more evolved/optimized one someday... after a few million cycles more. :P
--- End code ---
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