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Specialization again

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shvarz:
OK, just for the fun of it, I am going to play devil's advocate and argue that we don't need a specific "specialization system" at all in DBs.  Throw your arguments at me for the contrary.  But please be specific.  I dont want any general pylosophical questions, I want direct things that don't work in DBs and how specialization system will fix them.  Let's see where it leads us :)

So far, I've seen one very specific comment (from PY?): Bots don't specialize in feeding.  There is no way for a bot to specialize in eating only a particular type of bot (say a veggie).  So we need a system to force it to specialize.

My answer:  Bots don't specialize, because there is no need for it.  Energy is energy in DBs, regardless of where it came from - from veggie or from competitior bot, or from your own species.  If we make bots to consist of different types of energy (protein/carb/fat system discussed), then specialization will appear on its own, without any artificial "specialization system".

Numsgil:
My list of complaints:

1.  There is no incentive for the cells of a multibot to specialize to specific functions.  They can do so, but those cells will just be less powerful compared to their genearlized form.

2.  Plants and animals have a very concrete division between the two.  A plant cannot become an animal, or vice versa.  I think it'd be cool to be able to run some sims with a primitve bot that slowly evolves into plants and animals.

3.  There cannot exist more than one animal and one plant species.  There are no ecosystems that naturally develop beyond the most simple.  Any mutation sim left indefinately will develop 1 animal and 1 plant species.  Having larger sims doesn't change this fact.

PurpleYouko:

--- Quote ---If we make bots to consist of different types of energy (protein/carb/fat system discussed), then specialization will appear on its own, without any artificial "specialization system".
--- End quote ---

Ok In this I absolutely disagree.

No matter what we add to the phyiological makeup of the robots, there is no way that specialization can happen with the present system of physics in the DB universe.

There is simply no mechanism to allow it.
The actual VB code isn't there.

We would have to have some different commands for eating different things or else all feeding commands would yield exactly the same thing. Energy.
Having different commands to specify which things we can eat is very cumbersome so a bit system of enzymes would work better in conjunction with the different energy types listed above.

 :D  PY  :D

Zelos:
to make the specilization to come automatic, you need different energy sources and different ways of getting them, else it wont happen. the enzyme system will work fine as "getting energy" and if we have different areas where the chemicals will pop up is a good wat of different energy sources. in some areas where S is usual they will develop to eat it and other bots whit high concentraion of it. while in a Fe region it will be the same, but Fe instant of S. while in the middle of them we will get bot whit enzymes which is (let us say) half good on both, but can do both, whit both Fe and S they get enough energy, but if they come to far to the source of S or Fe they will not be able to get enough energy. coz they only get 50% of the energy in the Fe or S

shvarz:
Nums points:

1.  Please give me an example.  It would also be nice if you could give a biological example of what you are trying to achieve.

2. Yes.  However there is no "point" system or any other "specialization system".  The difference comes from laws of nature.  If we introduce the correct laws of nature, the specialization will come naturally.  Even the "carb/protein/fat system" might already lead to that.  Also, remember that a large amount of plankton has ability to do both - photsynthesize and hunt.

3.  Even the largest sim that we run still can be crossed by a bot within its lifetime.  There is no diversity in environment, it is homogenous.  In such a situation nature also results in selection of a single most fit species.  So no conflict with real life here.  Introduce more diverse environment and specialization will come.

PY points:

1.  Hmm, did you see the this page?  It explains how "protein/carb/fat system" may lead to appearance of different species.  No additional physics necessary.

2.  The mechanism for specialization is in genes.  They allow different behaviour, thus - specialization.

3.  In the thread linked above Nums explained how the feeding would work in such system.  It is done for the bot, so there is no need to code specifics, just general decisions based on data ("crunchy" -> "spit out").

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