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Eyes
Jez:
I like the direction this is going, I have to say I agree with the premise that binocular vision should be the sole preserve of multi bots TBH, much as it pains me to say!
The idea that a bot can use all 9 eyes to see and then has to choose which eye to focus and therefore get information via rather than wasting a cycle to turn and look through eye 5 sounds really cool. I could imagine making, if I ever do, a multibot that had effective binocular vision using that.
Day night cycles affecting vision is also a great idea.
--- Quote ---I see no strong reasn why DB must parallel biology at all
--- End quote ---
my bots were sharks with frikin laser beams... although pulse lasers seem to be out doing beams now; unlike Elite
Numsgil:
Proper binocular vision's primary purposes aren't needed in current sims, which is a problem if we want to move towards binocular vision.
Basically, bots don't need binocular vision to have deoth perception, since they have a perfect ability to determine distance using a single eye. Bots don't need binocular summation because if anything is within the bot's vision radius, and it's pointed in the right direction, it can see the object.
About the only reason I can imagine for bots to have binocular vision is determining the structure of another multibot using paralax. And maybe using binocular vision in the dark could extend your vision radius if we do what I propose above. That's it.
The problem is basically that current eyes are too powerful. Dumbing them down is an option, but a drastic one and it tends to go in the oposite direction of most changes.
I don't have a solution, I'm hoping by outlining the problem someone else has an idea?
EricL:
I don't see a problem. Binocular vision is an evolved adaptation, something a small percentage of the 10 million biological species on the planet have evolved as a means to provide distance and depth of field inputs for their brains to utilize. It's a complex sense, many millions of years in the making, but only because unlike DB, the real world doesn't have an easy way to provide organisms with distance inputs about the things around it. If it did, binocular vision would not have evolved.
Yes we could simulate the environmental conditions that selected towards this adaptation in the real world or dumb down vision such that the evolution of determining how far away things are via paralax or some other means would convey an advantage but I don't find the goal of evolving such equipment as a means of providing inputs the system can easily provide to be particularly interesting. Call me repeditive, but I'm interested in evolving complex behaviour that uses such inputs, not the inputs themselves. And lest I be allowed to dream, perhaps someday, evenutally, evolving complex inteligence.
Any sense, any inputs we can provide to the bots we should provide, not evolve. It's trivial for the system to provide to a bot directional and distance inputs about the things around it. It's non-trivial to evolve behaviour that uses that information effectively e.g. hide and ponce or run and hide or coordinate attacks with others or any number of a zillion other interesting and complex things.
Bottom line, I'm interested in evolving non-trival complex behaviour, not senses.
Testlund:
Well, I prefer biological realism, but maybe that's just me. I think DB has been developed in that direction quite well. I also agree with letting day/night cycles affect vision. Very good idea! Seems we have the same opinion how DB should be most of the time.
Jez:
What about MB's? I thought one of the long term goals for DB was the evolution of MB's but with single bots having such powerful eyes anyway and no need for binocular vision to gain depth perception perhaps we are unfairly putting MB's in a really bad position.
If you want an evolutionary reason for MB's to exist then they need to have some defining advantage, rather than just being larger and less mobile food trays for smaller quicker bots.
The only time I seriously tried to make an MB was when ties were the most powerful weapon around, I figured that an MB using the max amount of ties it is allowed to have to create itself would make it invulnerable to tie bot hunters. Not that I managed 'cause ties always end up confusing me but the thought was good.
For this reason I am taking the idea of dumbing down uni bot eyes as a simple but effective way of driving the evolution of bots forward.
I am also very interested in creating complex behaviour patterns, perhaps giving all the bots access to all the abilities isn't the best way to do it. Evolution isn't driven by having everything, that just makes you fat and lazy!
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