Author Topic: Finaly 3.0 is somewhat out (and stuff)  (Read 20599 times)

Offline Botsareus

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Finaly 3.0 is somewhat out (and stuff)
« on: March 07, 2005, 11:04:56 AM »
:D
Good Job with that.  I am staying tuned until all the bugs are fixed (or at least most of the bugs)

***
Just came up with a new way to mutate bots , testing...

***
I am stuck on the music but it's ok.  I'll eventually figure out what to do.

***
Did anyone give music already? <---------------------------------
Num do you know the api (probably yes bc its the same for c++) to play a sound file using VB? (although I dont think sndplaysound supports .mp3's)
So Num the basic qustion is: Do you know how to make DarwinBots play sound?

***
O yea  :devil: I am working on a new bot called "lessbeef".

The idea: it will study the map first before it attacks, then go to an area where fewer enemies are and feed and reproduce. (I dont know if it should have more energy or more numbers , anyway)  After the group feels strong they leave one or two behind so the whole population won't die out while the rest go storm the enemy.  It will no longer concintrate on feeding.  

It will study the map first before it attacks, then go where there is the most enemy bots, attacking them all as a group.

So they layout is:

studymap ---> eat/reproduce ----> attack ---> studymap...

For Defence:

See if the attackers are strong or weak
Strong= Run away to a safer area. (Based on the map data gathered before)
Weak= Stop eating and wipe them out.

"Lessbeef" means it will get rid of the enemy in one move, hehehehe

If anyone wants to beat me to it, go ahead , just please keep the name.

Ex:

"Lessbeef By Endy"
"Lessbeef By Henk"
etc.

P.S.
One problem here is giving map data from one bot to the other.
The idea is children will keep the memory data of the parent.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2005, 02:29:17 PM by Numsgil »

Offline Numsgil

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Finaly 3.0 is somewhat out (and stuff)
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2005, 02:36:18 PM »
Don't get me wrong.  We're not even at 3.0.0 yet.  But I don't think it's fair for only me and PY to have a new version of it to play with since it's taking so long.



I know how to play music files.  I've already done it in another project I was working on.  Took a while to figure out, but it's easy once you know how.  It plays through a windows media player plug-in I think, so you'll need it on your computer for it to work.  Most windows installations have it anyway, so it shouldn't matter too much.



I'm not sure how you're going to store the map location of enemy bots.  However, pack behavior wouldn't be a bad idea if you can get it to work.  I was thinking of ways to use the refvel functions to create a school of fish, so each bot can warn all the other bots about predators and they can move away as one.

Offline Zelos

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Finaly 3.0 is somewhat out (and stuff)
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2005, 03:02:12 PM »
sounds pretty sweat to me. good luck, im working on a bot 2, sadly I have some major *BEEP*ing problems
When I have the eclipse cannon under my control there is nothing that can stop me from ruling the world. And I wont stop there. I will never stop conquering worlds through the universe. All the worlds in the universe will belong to me. All the species in on them will be my slaves. THE ENIRE UNIVERSE WILL BELONG TO ME AND EVERYTHING IN IT :evil: AND THERE IS NOTHING ANYONE OF you CAN DO TO STOP ME. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Offline PurpleYouko

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« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2005, 03:40:51 PM »
Shvarz came up with a swimming pack alga a while back. It used *.refaim and .setaim to make each robot turn to face the direction that the one in front was going.

Worked pretty well.

 :D  PY  :D
There are 10 kinds of people in the world
Those who understand binary.
and those who don't

:D PY :D

Offline Endy

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« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2005, 04:39:17 PM »
I made all Din's run away from any multi bot with three ties at one point. Not exactly the same thing but did produce a sort of wave effect as each fled from Helios. Maybe something warning of enemys spoted with in/out would be best, or better yet use memloc to scan a select memory location.

Endy B)

Offline Light

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« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2005, 06:35:45 PM »
I think trying to create a sort of map is impractical and wouldn't work in reality, but some sort of group bot behaviour would be an interesting area to investigate not sure how much of an impact it would have on improving bots in the league though.

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2005, 06:49:48 PM »
practicality aside, a group hunting behavior would allow smaller bots to take down larger bots.

Could help shore up the sudden increase in heavy bodied top bots.

Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2005, 07:23:05 PM »
Ok I finsihed my experiment trying to evlove bots using 2.35db , I pinned a nonmutating bot agenst a mutating virsion of itself:

cond
  *.nrg 20000 >
start
  50 .repro store
stop

cond
start
 -1 .shoot store
  10 .up store
stop
end

^ that is fomiliar to you guys I post that BEEEEP* a lot. , the above was used as starting Dna.

Results did not make sense:

If bouth robots were givin the same starting values: the one that did not mutate won

If  robots with mutation was givin high papulation in the Beginning: It won but the only thing different was the mutation rates.

Conclusion:

The Dna system and mutation is still too limited to produce working and  unique code.

Based on that ^ now I will try robots that have many many generations on one repro, the idea is that enough changes in the dna will acumilate in one go , to produce some kind of new better robots.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2005, 07:23:54 PM by Botsareus »

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2005, 07:46:38 PM »
There are some flaws in your experiment:

1. Time.  90% (99%?  Maybe 99.99%) of mutations are BAD.  Or at best have no effect.  So it will take alot of time for a mutation sim to produce something interesting.

Try letting it run for 3 days straight.

2.  Conditions - You are trying to judge how well a bot evolved based on how well it fairs against another bot in F1 starting conditions.  But the bot didn't evolve to win under F1 conditions, it evolved to survive in its current settings.

After 30 000 cycles the energy levels are going to be different than they are at the start of a standard F1 match.

Basically, you'll end up with a bot that is designed to survive in F1 conditions after 30 000 cycles.  So if it doesn't do as well as an unmutated version in F1 conditions at 0 cycles, don't be so surprised.

Try adding some unmated version to the mutation sim.  See which one fairs better on the mutated one's home turf.

Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2005, 07:54:12 PM »
"Try letting it run for 3 days straight." ROFL , no really man , I did simulators before; my simulators produce resolts a lot faster... , I am working on a sim right now (not really - I am fead up with vb right now) anyway, when I get that sim finished I'll give you the source code. (unless it does not work witch I dought)
« Last Edit: March 07, 2005, 08:58:38 PM by Botsareus »

Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2005, 07:55:46 PM »
Quote
2. Conditions - You are trying to judge how well a bot evolved based on how well it fairs against another bot in F1 starting conditions. But the bot didn't evolve to win under F1 conditions, it evolved to survive in its current settings.

I did F1 conditions as the settings so no problem there.

Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2005, 08:03:18 PM »
Quote
Try adding some unmated version to the mutation sim. See which one fairs better on the mutated one's home turf.
The problem (as I already explained it) is that the robot does not mutate new stuff at all, I pinned it agenst a nonmutating or "unmated" virsion for the whole sim, the robot did not evolve and the  nonmutating virsion always won if the robots were [you]given the same starting values[/you].

If you mean "not reproducteble virsion of the bot" by "unmated". Then what does the robot have to evolve agenst if the chance of it surviving is practicaly Infinitely greater then chance of robot that does nor reproduce surviving.

Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2005, 08:14:04 PM »
Light , its quite practical to make a robot build a map of its surroundings, I seen it done.

Check out (sorry dont have link) stuff about a compatition in the desert , robot controlled cars have to figure out the best path trough the desert using only gps and good old vedio or lasor sensors.

Instead of building information on each robot, It will build "square blobs of stuff" in memory and how mutch different robots are in each blob.

Note: I did not say "round blobs" because that will requre the use of sin and cos and maybe atn and tan, the dna code does not have this stuff, infact yes: making "round blobs of stuff" will be inpractical. (I mean we only have about 800 free memory locations to work with)

Offline Light

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« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2005, 08:38:47 PM »
Myabe its possible but in a fight it would take to long most battles dont last that long and robots have a relatively short life span, if each robot maps its own area, it then has too share it with other bots, and given that a bot can cross the screen in like 25 cycles, it wont be accurate at all, only use you could do is maybe map enemy bot concentrations in different parts of the screens, but I dont really see what use that information could serve your bots, plus the whole idea is a massive undertaking for what I see as no gain,  but if you can get it to work, fair play to you.

I think its much more interesting having bots maybe group together at a particular location or just keeping close too one another for protection in numbers, this might work quite well against single bots, if helios charged straight through one of the groups it could possibly mo them all down, who knows. Another interesting thing is just having bots assesing there target, for example are they bigger than me should I keep away like  DIN with Helios, or should we team up to take big bots down, should I build up or reproduce fast, what is the best strategy to defeat my enemy. Having a bit of comunication between bots too co-ordinate information. If I wasn't snowed under with work I would maybe do some more work on my bots, but such is life that wont be for a while  :(

Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2005, 08:57:42 PM »
Quote
only use you could do is maybe map enemy bot concentrations in different parts of the screens

Light thats exactly what I was talking about, I got the Idea and the Strategy from "RedAlert", (PY should know what RedAlert is , he is into strategy games)