Author Topic: population control  (Read 3756 times)

Offline maheshjr2000

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population control
« on: June 18, 2006, 04:18:23 PM »
what should I set the age cost to to have efficient population control.

Offline Numsgil

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population control
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2006, 09:21:37 PM »
It's going to depend a great deal on a large number of other settings.  In general most costs are probably in a good range if they're set to something like 1E-3 or 1E-4.  Not sure what a good range for age costs would be, I haven't really played around with it too much.

Offline maheshjr2000

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population control
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2006, 11:20:21 AM »
Hmm well I set my costs to 2 and the population seemed to stabilized but it boomed like crazy after a few 100 cycles. My longest living bot was like 6000 cycles old!

Offline EricL

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population control
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2006, 11:20:27 AM »
It does indeed depend completely on the effeciency of your organisms in utilizing (either directly or indirectly) the energy coming into the sim via autotrophs, the amount of that energy and whether you even want to use an age cost.  Some people think this cost artificial as it does not tax an actual genomic, metabolic  or morphogenic action.  It taxes being alive (or being old if you increase it logrithmicly) which I think of as a corse grain catch all metabolic cost.

But the larger question you pose is "once I decide to impose certain costs, what should they be and do they need to change over time as bots evolve effeciencies?" is a great question and is exactly why I added the dynamic features I did in 2.42.6.

Set the age cost at 1.  Or 0.01.  Or 0.0001.  Then let the dynaimc population feature adjust the multiplier to keep the taget population near what you want.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2006, 11:21:32 AM by EricL »
Many beers....

Offline shvarz

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population control
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2006, 11:27:10 AM »
I have to say that dynamic costs is the best feature that came to DB in quite a long time.  It works magic!  Magic!
"Never underestimate the power of stupid things in big numbers" - Serious Sam

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2006, 03:58:51 PM »
That's the highest praise I've ever seen shvarz give something like this

Offline shvarz

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population control
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2006, 04:39:27 PM »
well, I've come to my senses a bit and now I'm not THAT optimistic.  Mostly because just now my sim died out not despite the dynamic costs, but actually due to them.  The population went up, driving the costs up and then died very quickly, but costs remained high (I had them on medium sensetivity) and that drove the population to extinction.

The feature is cool, because it allows pretty efficienctly to keep population size at a desired level, preventing over-population (which slows down the sim) and freak die-outs due to bad luck and small population sizes of DBs.

It also serves as a predator and allows all-veggie simulations.  This was not possible before.  Or, at least, not in a fun way.
 
What troubles me is that I am yet to understand what exactly this thing does to populations, what kind of selective pressures it provides...  Especially because it counts both veggies and predators in its algorithm.  

Such a powerful feature needs a lot of customization options.  I really like the "desired population" and "sensetivity", they work great.  But I'd like to see the ability to specify costs for each species separately (or have two settings - one for veggies, the other for everyone else).  

And also I want to customize the maximum and minimum values that for the multiplier.  Or some kind of ability to shrink the scale of values for the multiplier...
"Never underestimate the power of stupid things in big numbers" - Serious Sam

Offline maheshjr2000

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population control
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2006, 04:54:26 PM »
ill definately try it out tonight.

Offline Griz

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population control
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2006, 05:48:35 PM »
Quote from: maheshjr2000
ill definately try it out tonight.
ditto ...
sounds like a great idea.
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