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Faster than light
PurpleYouko:
--- Quote ---well, if they have the same speed compared to the same thing they will never become older compared to each other. they have the same flow of time. if they dont have the same speed or are compared to different thing one will have a slower flow of time and will be younger when they reach the same speed to compared to the same thing
:lecture: zelos :lecture:
--- End quote ---
Everything has the same speed with respect to something.
You can cross reference every atom in the universe and find that every one can be said to moving at the same relative speed to some point somewhere. Then that point can be calculated to be moving at the same speed as another point, relative to yet another point. The whole lot would eventually cancel out in such a way that time dilation isn't possible under any circumstsnces.
That would make the whole of relativity superfluous and completely pointless.
My point is that from each of my two observer's frames of reference, they are the one who is going to die first while the other one stays young.
Let's just assume that there is a method of instantaneous communication over infinite distances, wormhole, subspace, whatever. Distance and speed should be completely irrelevent if the two observers are able to carry on a video conference with each other all the time.
In this case then each observer would see the other remain young while he himself aged.
It doesn't make sense.
:wacko: PY :wacko:
PurpleYouko:
--- Quote ---You should check it out. The question that you posed is a variant of the old "twin paradox" and it is explained right here: http://www.phys.vt.edu/~takeuchi/relativit.../section15.html
--- End quote ---
Actually this isn't a version of the twins paradox since no change ever occurs in either observer's inertial frame of reference.
The twins paradox requires the twin on the spaceship to accelerate away from the (relatively) staionary twin and later to accelerate back towards him.
In my example I propose that both observers continue on in a completely unaltered straight line for eternity. All I need is a hypothetical method to instantly comunicate between the two for them to directly observe the aging phenomenon.
Of course it isn't actually necessary for them to observe it for it to happen.
Each observer ages faster than the other whether they actually see it or not.
"But they are each in a different frame of reference", the argument goes.
So what? This only means that the two frames of reference are at direct odds with each other. They cannot logically both exist since in each of the two frames, the observer is dead long before the observer in the opposite frame is.
I have been through all the math and all the logic I have spoken to supposed experts in the field and I have never got a satisfactory explanation for how this can be.
:blink: PY :blink:
shvarz:
No, PY, it is exactly the same situation. If these two guys are observing each other from distance, each of them will see that the other is aging slower (first part of twin paradox scenario). There is no contradiction. But if they want to get together and compare their observations right next to each other, then at least one of them will have to brake and reverse direction. At that point, it will look to that guy (who is braking and then accelerating) that his twin suddenly grew very old. The simmetry is broken, because they are not in innert systems anymore. Read that website, it does explain the whole thing pretty well and is quite short to go through in 15 minutes :)
Numsgil:
Relativity made sense to me in highschool. I've since lost it, but I remember it used to make sense to me. It's not an intuitive system, but it does solve alot of problems. More than it creates.
If relativity is false, it is false in the same way newtonian physics is. It's a special case.
shvarz:
--- Quote ---each of them will see that the other is aging slower
--- End quote ---
I think I just came up with a good example how this can be and not be a contradiction. Imagine two guys standing on sphere, but they don't know they are on a sphere. They come close to each other and measure up - both are six feet tall. Then they move apart. They use instruments to measure each other's height. Due to the curvature of the sphere it will appear to both of them that the other person is getting shorter.
This situation does not exactly replicate the situation with twins, but I just tought that it gives a good example that sometimes reality depends on your point of view.
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