Author Topic: Simplest Evo Starter Bot  (Read 40769 times)

Offline Welwordion

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« Reply #105 on: May 03, 2006, 06:00:16 AM »
I am currently running a sim with a bot with mainly 0 and 50 as starting values where I added some store and inc/dec commands as vlaues can only take affect if stored right?
As cond start stop structures are regulary destroyed by mutation I also added, sgn mult before several store commands so it works SGfies wothout conditions.
I hope when I return from uni there will still be something alife (I set an age cost for the age 200 000 ,after I saw that there were 3 birth from somewhere around  50 000-60 000 cycle)
My settings are a 32000 24000 map a planet eater gravitation of 5 no nrg costs for storing and cond and all my bots are vegs with 6 nrg gain per cycle , I started with 250 vegs/bots and 500 is the maximum.
We will see if something comes out ot this

Offline Testlund

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« Reply #106 on: May 03, 2006, 08:21:44 AM »
I only got 3 births too after 1420800 cycles. Isn't that strange? The veggies have a bigger genome to work with this time, but the result is worse. But... I haven't given up!  
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Offline Testlund

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« Reply #107 on: May 03, 2006, 08:36:27 AM »
Quote from: Numsgil
Evolution is terrible at finding one specific value if none of the other values are meaningful.

This reminds me of something very interesting I read on the internet. Where's that link...

Well...It's a Swedish site, but it got a lot of links about the theory of intelligent design. Some scientists mean that it is impossible for molecules put together at random to create a living organism. Even the simplest bacteria is to complex for that. There is no one today that has put forth a good theory how the first organism was created. Maybe you guys have allready looked at this stuff, but here is a link about it.

http://www.origins.org/

This is something that has been very interesting to me since autumn last year when I first heard about it. If they find an answear to this question, then life whould no longer be a mystery. Either there is a god or we can say goodbye to religion.

So... What I'm thinking about here is that IF I can evolve a good working bot out of just 500 bots with random data, within maybe a couple of weeks or months, then maybe the planet can create a living organism out of endless stuff of molecules combined together at random for billions of years. Just a thought. What do you think about that?  Maybe Nums can do a probability calculation about this. Hehe.  
« Last Edit: May 03, 2006, 08:38:46 AM by Testlund »
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Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #108 on: May 03, 2006, 10:38:16 AM »
Personally I believe in Panspermia (life on Earth was seeded from extra terrestrial sources, asteroids and stuff).

Which has the very important aspect of: how long does it take abiotic stuff to become alive?

If you believe Panspermia, it could take 3 billion billion years per cubic kilometer of ocean, once life developed somewhere it would spread through the universe.

Personally I think life is to irreducibly complex to evolve from scratch over and over again.  It can be done a small handful of times, but too much is just going on.

My own ex nihilo sim: 12 million cycles.  One of the bots has learned to move forward constantly. :/

Quote
This is something that has been very interesting to me since autumn last year when I first heard about it. If they find an answear to this question, then life whould no longer be a mystery. Either there is a god or we can say goodbye to religion.

I think you misunderstand the nature of religion.  If you ever get a chance, read "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?".  In the book the androids try to prove that the dominant religion on Earth is a sham (Mercerism).  They track down the actor who played Mercer, and show him to be not only not dead, but quite poor and destitute.

One of the main characters then says something to the effect of "it won't matter".  The author might have meant it disparingly, but I don't think so.  Personally I think that sums up my own faith quite well.  If you could prove to me that there is no God and Jesus was just a man, it still wouldn't change my faith.  Lots of people feel the same way I think.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2006, 10:46:00 AM by Numsgil »

Offline Welwordion

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« Reply #109 on: May 03, 2006, 10:52:38 AM »
Ah good I just returned and heureka the 19x xxx cycle they hjave reproduced and all are shooting like crazy.
I lowered the methusalem border to 10000 and reduced  they allowed number of bits to 300 to get  the sim to ru n faster and to introduce a little more evolutionary pressure.(unfortunately I have a high insertion mutation rate which will cause the Dna to get longer :/)( the nrg per bot/veggie was reduced to 3 although I do not remember doing this)(I changed the viscosity to 50 instead of 150)
« Last Edit: May 03, 2006, 11:09:11 AM by Welwordion »

Offline Elite

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« Reply #110 on: May 03, 2006, 11:10:20 AM »
3.5 million cycles

28 bots have been born but nothing else interesting yet ...

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #111 on: May 03, 2006, 11:14:20 AM »
My bot that was moving forward constantly has been stuck now.

Another bot learned to fix itself.  Then reproduce.  The baby bot then tied to the fast moving bot and back to its parent.  The fast moving bot is now stuck in place, vainly trying to pull away

Offline Testlund

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« Reply #112 on: May 03, 2006, 11:16:06 AM »
Quote from: Numsgil
If you could prove to me that there is no God and Jesus was just a man, it still wouldn't change my faith.  Lots of people feel the same way I think.

I don't side with one side or the other on this one, though I don't believe in god the way it is described in todays religions. It COULD be there is some kind of creator behind it all. For me the truth is the most important of all and to keep an open mind. Personally I think religion is messing up peoples minds and it is used more for controll over people and destructive behavior. There are allways authoroties in religion societies that are abusing the religion for own benefit. Ok, umm... Maybe I'm getting too much out of topic here.  
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Offline Sprotiel

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« Reply #113 on: May 03, 2006, 02:37:52 PM »
Quote from: Testlund
Some scientists mean that it is impossible for molecules put together at random to create a living organism. Even the simplest bacteria is to complex for that. There is no one today that has put forth a good theory how the first organism was created. Maybe you guys have allready looked at this stuff, but here is a link about it.

http://www.origins.org/
Dembski is a creationist crackpot. This theory of Irreducible Complexity uses the fallacy of considering absence of proof as proof of absence. It's been refuted on specific examples several times, see this for the latest example. Besides, everyone agrees that it's impossible for molecules put together at random to create even the simplest bacteria. Life probably appeared from a mixture of evolving and replicating RNA and proteins.

Offline Elite

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« Reply #114 on: May 03, 2006, 04:40:24 PM »
5,000,000cy

Eight thousand bots have been born since I last checked!

One bot has learned to shoot

 start
 -1 *-10 start
 dup not
 -7 mult and
 start
 abs store
 store
 4 else
 | store
 *-2

And a strange, tied mass has formed in one corner:
« Last Edit: May 03, 2006, 04:41:48 PM by Elite »

Offline Elite

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« Reply #115 on: May 03, 2006, 05:16:21 PM »
Aaaaaaaaargh, it won't open the file I saved. Noooooooooo, my 14 hour sim!
But it probably has something to do with the file being 13MB!

The (compressed) saved file is attached. Can anyone else run it?

I would be really grateful if I could get my sim back.

Offline Welwordion

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« Reply #116 on: May 03, 2006, 05:29:09 PM »
I will try to run abot with the code:
Code: [Select]
0 0 *0 *0 sub sgn 1 sub abs sgn mult sgn store
0 0 *0 *0 sub sgn 1 add sgn mult sgn store
0 0 *0 sgn mult sgn store
0 *0 *0 sub sgn 1 sub abs sgn mult sgn inc
0 *0 *0 sub sgn 1 add sgn mult sgn inc
0 *0 sgn mult sgn inc
0 *0 *0 sub sgn 1 sub abs sgn mult sgn dec
0 *0 *0 sub sgn 1 add sgn mult sgn dec
0 *0 sgn mult sgn dec
*0 0 *0 *0 sub sgn 1 sub abs sgn mult sgn store
*0 0 *0 *0 sub sgn 1 add sgn mult sgn store
*0 0 *0 sgn mult sgn store
*0 *0 *0 sub sgn 1 sub abs sgn mult sgn inc
*0 *0 *0 sub sgn 1 add sgn mult sgn inc
*0 *0 sgn mult sgn inc
*0 *0 *0 sub sgn 1 sub abs sgn mult sgn dec
*0 *0 *0 sub sgn 1 add sgn mult sgn dec
*0 *0 sgn mult sgn dec
...(repeated several times)

@Elite:I get such errors quite often, thats why I now always save my files to multiple names.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2006, 05:50:39 PM by Welwordion »

Offline EricL

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« Reply #117 on: May 03, 2006, 11:04:51 PM »
Quote from: Elite
I would be really grateful if I could get my sim back.
Attached is the sim with the mutation history strings stripped out.

Save the old one.  I may be able to fix the bug in 2.42.4 in such a way that it can be read in and the mutation history preserved.  No guarentees, but I'll try.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2006, 11:37:17 PM by EricL »
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Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #118 on: May 03, 2006, 11:59:30 PM »
I've had a similar experience with my 30 million cycle saved sim.

Would really like to get that back

Offline EricL

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« Reply #119 on: May 04, 2006, 12:11:15 AM »
Quote from: Numsgil
I've had a similar experience with my 30 million cycle saved sim.

Would really like to get that back
Try loading it with the attached version.  It's just 2.42.3b with a hack to skip to the end of the per-bot section if the LastMutDetail length is negative.  Note that any per-bot mutation settings will be lost as they will be skipped in the read.  Note also that they may be read in incorrectly as it is possible that the mutdetails length is postive but still incorrect, having wrapped positive and negative a few times.

It's a good thing the mutation details are so close to the end of the per-bot file section or this hack wouldn't work.

If it loads, save it and you will have a sim with all the mutations strings stripped out which should be good for awhile before the mutations build up again.

Anyone else hitting this bug is welcome to try this.  No guarentees.  This is just a hack.  2.42.4 will have a real fix I hope.
Many beers....