Author Topic: Conditionless Bots  (Read 14372 times)

Offline PurpleYouko

  • Bot God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2556
    • View Profile
Conditionless Bots
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2006, 11:48:16 AM »
Quote
hunter was a challenge to beat
I really don't like Hunter 2.4.

He is just about the nastiest piece of crap that I have ever made.

He started out great with some fantastic new concepts. Elegent would be the term I would use.

Trouble was that he didn't quite have enough killer instinct. I had to drastically butcher the poor thing, destroying all that made him lovable.
In the end I came up with a highly aggressive killing machine, but in making him that way, I had to sacrifice efficiency and any kind of elegence of form.

The result kicks ass but in a really horrible way if you know what I mean. There just aren't any redeaming features to him. Bit like a wolverine really. Perhaps I should rename him.

I need to make a hunter 2.5 at some point. There has to be some way to make a truly viscous killer without sacrificing the refinement that has always been the trademark of the Hunter family.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world
Those who understand binary.
and those who don't

:D PY :D

Offline Light

  • Bot Destroyer
  • ***
  • Posts: 245
    • View Profile
Conditionless Bots
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2006, 11:50:45 AM »
Quote
Has anyone with any time tested out my Una SG bot yet? Endy?
It just swarms over everything in its path like a horde of flesh-eating ants. If I entered it for the league now it could probably beat F1, F2, and SB, although hunter was a challenge to beat
Newbies are so confident these days  :evil:

Its a nice little bot, it could maybe get to the top of SG and F1 league and top 3/4 in F2, but you can never fully tell until you actually run the league, good bots sometimes come unstuck by bots low down in the league.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2006, 11:53:04 AM by Light »

Offline PurpleYouko

  • Bot God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2556
    • View Profile
Conditionless Bots
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2006, 11:54:19 AM »
Funny how F2 seems to be stronger than F1 these days.

Often an F2 bot rules both leagues if it is entered into them.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world
Those who understand binary.
and those who don't

:D PY :D

Offline Elite

  • Bot Overlord
  • ****
  • Posts: 532
    • View Profile
Conditionless Bots
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2006, 01:13:11 PM »
I've finished my modifications to Una

I've made a SG version of your .newmom routine PY - it's suprisingly effective for such a small change

I've also removed the *.refpoison shoot routines and replaced them with a new routine - any bot with eyes or .shoots in its DNA gets hit by this shot:

Code: [Select]
.dn .shoot store
32000 .shootval store

- it kills instantly :firedevil:

That thing is now nearly totally invincible - it wins even when outnumbered 5 to 1 by The One

Check out the antivirus coding

Code: [Select]
.delgene inc
.delgene inc

Continuously .delgenes gene 2 - any virus is deleted before it even has a chance to execute it's payload.
- complete immunity

I'll post it to the beastiary now ...

Offline PurpleYouko

  • Bot God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2556
    • View Profile
Conditionless Bots
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2006, 01:28:20 PM »
That thing is just plain evil.

Kicked Hunter's ass pretty quickly.

If I just wasn't so darn busy with real work right now....

I need a good challenge. :evil:
There are 10 kinds of people in the world
Those who understand binary.
and those who don't

:D PY :D

Offline Elite

  • Bot Overlord
  • ****
  • Posts: 532
    • View Profile
Conditionless Bots
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2006, 03:38:48 PM »
Back on the topic of conditionless bots, Furiae has some good conditionless coding in it - the genes activate but don't execute if a virus is detected.

Furiae's virus checker in DIN would make a good bot.
I've looked at SGing DIN but I find the navigation codes confusing  :blink:
Good old animal minimalis - nice and easy navigation codes, and it works!  :D

Offline Numsgil

  • Administrator
  • Bot God
  • *****
  • Posts: 7742
    • View Profile
Conditionless Bots
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2006, 04:27:24 PM »
I take pride in making the most simplistic turning genes imaginable :D  When I joined I don't think there were successful bots with under 4 turning genes.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2006, 04:27:51 PM by Numsgil »

Offline Elite

  • Bot Overlord
  • ****
  • Posts: 532
    • View Profile
Conditionless Bots
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2006, 04:31:27 PM »
Those genes are great! All my bots use that navigation 'style'
- Including Una, take a look (it's rather confusing though  :blink: )

Offline PurpleYouko

  • Bot God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2556
    • View Profile
Conditionless Bots
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2006, 04:55:07 PM »
Quote
I take pride in making the most simplistic turning genes imaginable :D  When I joined I don't think there were successful bots with under 4 turning genes.
Yes there was.

H Devincio Venator or HDV (The original tie feeder) had one turn gene with almost infinite gradiations made by comparing and subtracting eye values.

It wasn't a particularly great algorith though. Great improvements have ben made since then.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world
Those who understand binary.
and those who don't

:D PY :D

Offline Light

  • Bot Destroyer
  • ***
  • Posts: 245
    • View Profile
Conditionless Bots
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2006, 06:30:51 PM »
Quote
Code: [Select]
.dn .shoot store
32000 .shootval store

- it kills instantly :firedevil:
Were there not limits on energy going into movement? or am I going senile?

Offline Numsgil

  • Administrator
  • Bot God
  • *****
  • Posts: 7742
    • View Profile
Conditionless Bots
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2006, 07:17:28 PM »
I believe bots are only charged nrg based on the resulting change in velocity, which is capped at the max velocity (60 I believe).  Theoretically I don't see a bot getting charged more than the equivelant to 120 .up store

Offline Light

  • Bot Destroyer
  • ***
  • Posts: 245
    • View Profile
Conditionless Bots
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2006, 05:16:45 AM »
It was a change implemented in 2.4, so while its a killer shot in 2.37 its not very effective in 2.4, problem with using 2 different versions.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2006, 05:18:12 AM by Light »

Offline PurpleYouko

  • Bot God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2556
    • View Profile
Conditionless Bots
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2006, 08:50:45 AM »
It shouldn't work in 2.37 either.

There is a cap of 100 on any value to be stored in .up, .dn, .dx and .sx. It has been there since V2.11 when it was added to counteract T-Preservans who was built with a one-hit-kill shot that placed a ridiculously high number in .dn of the victim.

I wonder if putting the value in via a tie has found some way to bypass the safeguards. I will need to check the code for this at some point when I get the chance.
If anyone else wants to check it then please go right ahead.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world
Those who understand binary.
and those who don't

:D PY :D

Offline Elite

  • Bot Overlord
  • ****
  • Posts: 532
    • View Profile
Conditionless Bots
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2006, 11:06:35 AM »
Sorry - it doesn't kill instantly. PY fixed that really early in delelopment.

The real benefit of that shot is that it stores a value of 100 .dn into the bots memory and saps alot of energy from the bot, while being cheaper in terms of energy than a powered-up .shootval shot. Just a cheaper way of killing the bots Una doesn't need to feed on (anyone with a positive .refeye and/or *.refshoot).

Ties are another matter entirely however ...


How about a virus that is quick to fire that does the same job:

Code: [Select]
cond
' Probably needs some form of conspec recog here
start
32000 .dn store
stop

Doesn't get you energy but does kill instantly

Viruses seem rather overpowered. I could .mkvirus and .vshoot that virus for a fraction of the energy cost of a .shoot that would do the same damage (or go the same range)

EDIT: Oh no, sorry, did you say energy going into movement? In witch case my virus is no more useful than Una's shot. Oops  :redface:
« Last Edit: January 24, 2006, 11:41:36 AM by Elite »

Offline PurpleYouko

  • Bot God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2556
    • View Profile
Conditionless Bots
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2006, 01:23:32 PM »
Quote
EDIT: Oh no, sorry, did you say energy going into movement? In witch case my virus is no more useful than Una's shot. Oops redface.gif

That's right. The advantage of the virus is that it will execute on every cycle though. Of course, if the virus is inserted before normal movement genes it will have no effect at all.

Try making a bot that moves forward at a rate of 32000 every cycle.
What you will actually see happening is that a value of 100 will be inserted into .up.
However the bot will not actually accelerate by even that amount. The maximum velocity atainable (never more than about 60) is first determined by the bot's mass, then the difference between that velocity and it's current velocity is used to calculate the energy cost for the acceleration.
Essentially, this bot will reach full speed very rapidly at a considerable one-time cost of a hundred or so energy. After that it will just cruise, spending the odd energy point here and there to maintain its speed.

If you really want to drain the victims energy, make a virus or shot that applies 100 times the negative of the sign of the current value in *.vel, into .up.

This will keep switching maximum acceleration in the opposite direction of present movement. That way it will spend maximum energy on direction changes all the time.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world
Those who understand binary.
and those who don't

:D PY :D