Multibot Vegetable

[Boris of Quirm]

Haven't completely tested Reactum in 2.4 yet, but I have been using it in 2.37.

Will look at all my settings and pop them in a .txt file for you.

[Griz]

Haven't completely tested Reactum in 2.4 yet, but I have been using it in 2.37.

Will look at all my settings and pop them in a .txt file for you.

ah!
yes ... seems to work fine there!
what about your Multiveg?
is that a 2.37.6 or 2.4.A bot?

no problem ...
will play now in 2.37.6 ...

did you check out my setting file for your Multiveg plus bots I uploaded?
that was for 2.4.A btw

ok ...
looking up ;)

[Boris of Quirm]

Glad to hear you managed to get it to work.
I have now edited the post for the code to include the fact that the bot was tested in 2.36, so that other people know how it was tested.

I'd be interested to find out how Reactum behaves with different bots, e.g. tiefeeders, multibots, swarmers, etc.

All my bots are created and tested in 2.37.6.
If you're testing in 2.4, it will be interesting to see what works and what doesn't.

Haven't had a chance to test your setting file yet, but hope to look at it tomorrow.

[Numsgil]

Yes, I'd be interested to know what works in 2.37 and not in 2.4 as well.  There are some conceptual issues I can't address, but there may be a few bugs in the logic somewhere that causes 'interesting' bugs.

[Boris of Quirm]

Still trying to get ties working properly on my 'plant' bot.

Below are a series of diagrams that explain the problems I am having.

Key
S - Stem
L - Leaf
F - Flower

Figure 1 - How it should work

Code: [Select]

          L
           |
     L --- S --- F
           |
     F --- S --- S --- L
           |     |
           L     FThis shows how I would expect the plant to build itself.

Figure 2 - Problem 1

Code: [Select]

          L
          
     L --- S --- F
           |
     F --- S --- S --- L
           |     |
           L     FIf you look at the topmost leaf you can see it has not created a tie with its' parent stem cell.  This problem can occur within any type of cell not tying correctly to its' parent.

Figure 3 - Problem 2

Code: [Select]

          L
           |
     L --- S --- F
           |     |
     F --- S --- S --- L
           |     |
           L     FIf you look to the middle of the plant you can see that a flower is connected to two stem cells.  A leaf or flower should only be connect to one other cell.  The problem can also occur when four stem cells join in a 'closed loop'.  A plant should not split and then grow back together.

If anyone has any ideas on how this problems can be fixed, or if you come up with a solution, I would be most grateful as I can then proceeed with developing other areas of the plant such as reproduction.

As an aside this is what the plant looks like the cells are moved.

Code: [Select]

          L
           |
     L --- S --- F
           |
     F --- S --- S --- L
           |     |
           L     F


               L  L  F
                \ | /
                 \|/
            L  F  S
             \ | /
              \|/
               S
               |
               |
            F  S  L
             \ | /
              \|/
               S

The order of the stems in the 2nd plant from the bottom up are:- Bottom right, bottom left and top of the 1st plant.  (Hope this makes sense!!)As you can see the organism now looks more plant like.  Eventually I would like the plant to grow like this on it own.

Thanks for your help.

[Boris of Quirm]

Just to clarify, the plants may grow bigger or smaller than those shown.  That particular plant was used as an example only, in order to illustrate the problems.

Again, this was tested in 2.37.6 with no other bots present, so the plant could grow uninterrupted.

[Griz]

Just to clarify, the plants may grow bigger or smaller than those shown.  That particular plant was used as an example only, in order to illustrate the problems.

Again, this was tested in 2.37.6 with no other bots present, so the plant could grow uninterrupted.

I've had them grow very large in 2.4.A  ...
18, 20 or more 'elements' before I paused the sim to stretch them out and investigate ...
but ...
so far it seems any one plant is made up entirely of the same element ...
iow ... all 1 or 3 ... stems or flowers ... don't believe I've ever found a leaf, #2.
I was expecting only stems to sprout leafs and only leafs to sprout flowers ...
but find them homogeneous within each 'agla organisim'.
now I don't know if they started as #1, sprouting 2, and then 3's ...
and somehow all changed as one number as the sim went on or not.
wasn't expecting it so wasn't watching. ;)

and yes ... I find double ties as well in 2.4.A.

will go play with it in 2.37.6 as well.


btw Boris ...
that settings I uploaded was done in 2.4.A

[Boris of Quirm]

Sorry wrong settings file.  Will try and find the right one.

As the chance of being any given type on the plant is random it could just be that you have been unlucky in not finding a leaf.

Only a cell that is a stem can produce a child.  This child can then be a stem, leaf or flower.  If you like, leaves and flowers can be thought of as terminators, in that the plant can't grow any bigger from this cell.

Hope that makes sense.  It's difficult trying to explain how something should look without pictures.  If you look back a couple of posts of mine at the one that contains the diagrams, I have now added one at the bottom that hopefully shows what I am trying to explain.

[Griz]

I'd be interested to find out how Reactum behaves with different bots, e.g. tiefeeders, multibots, swarmers, etc.

I been using C_Circumgirans with it ...
as it is a much more aggressive bot and attacks more often
and is much harder for the alga to 'surround' and capture ...
but it does happen.

I ran your settings with both the T_Perservarians and C_Circumgirans ...
limiting the veg population to 500 ...
and in the end the C_Circumgirans died out ...
while the Perservians were still going strong.
of course that could have just been an unfortunate mutation for the C_C.

will try other bots with Reactum ...
and try as I might ... I still read that as Rectum almost every time ...
cracks me up, so to speak. ;)
hey ... what do you want from an old sailor?

[Boris of Quirm]

I know what you mean about the name.

On more than one occassion I have had to check my spelling before I submit the post.

Reminds me of when the Queen had a bad year some time ago.  She referred to it as her 'Anus Horriblis'.

Still makes me laugh now.

[Griz]

Sorry wrong settings file.  Will try and find the right one.

As the chance of being any given type on the plant is random it could just be that you have been unlucky in not finding a leaf.

well I had hundreds of them to look at ...
and was surprised to find flowers without leaf or stems present.
so that set me to looking and I didn't find any.

Only a cell that is a stem can produce a child.  This child can then be a stem, leaf or flower.  If you like, leaves and flowers can be thought of as terminators, in that the plant can't grow any bigger from this cell.

Hope that makes sense.  It's difficult trying to explain how something should look without pictures.  If you look back a couple of posts of mine at the one that contains the diagrams, I have now added one at the bottom that hopefully shows what I am trying to explain.

yes. that is exactly the way I had envisioned it to work ...
and so finding it not so was unexpected.
remember ... this was in version 2.4.A so ...
who knows what difference that makes.

will run it in 2.37.6 and imagine to find it more as you planned there.
will also see if I can duplicate the sim I had developed in 2.4.A ...
with the C_Circums dragging/stretching the alga out ...
as it was not fixed into position ...
would be interesting to have only the 'stem's fixed ...
might get 'waving' plants ... like sea palms and other such ocean
plants that live in the tidal zone.

guess having only the stem fixed would have to happen from withing the bot dna.

[Boris of Quirm]

Talking of fixed stems, I am looking in a future version to trying to fix the first stem cell to the bottom of the screen, make the plant grow up towards sunlight.

This may produce a 'waving' plant.  Should look quite nice in pond mode.

[Griz]

Talking of fixed stems, I am looking in a future version to trying to fix the first stem cell to the bottom of the screen, make the plant grow up towards sunlight.

This may produce a 'waving' plant.  Should look quite nice in pond mode.

yes. that sounds good.

I don't know if you had yet developed the flower to stick to a passing bot or not ...
I did find that some tie feeders do attach to your agla ...
and certainly to drag them and any other thing they are tied to around ...
in unfixed mode that is ...
quite mezmerizing to watch. ;)
was esp interesting if the alga had survived long enough to grow large ...
as I had veg body/nrg set to 50% ...
so the physics of version 2.4.A were then apparent ...
a small bot attempting to drag a large mass along with it.
I also had a small amount of gravity ...
so the alga would be lifted by ties or even from collisions with the bots
that were moving upward. that's why I like C_Circumgirans  ...
they add a lot of momentum to the sim.
I spent a lot of time just watching ... good visual entertainment. ;)
again ... version 2.4.A
the physics aren't so realistic in 2.37.6 and earier ...
but will try to duplicate it there.

btw ... Nums or whoever ...
even the lowest Y gravity setting of 0.1 is too much for some sims.
I'd like to have more subtle control of it.
would be great to be able to have a box to type in a lower value
rather than just the slider.  or a way to select a 'range'  * or / by a factor of 10, etc.
just an idea for some vernier control.

[Griz]

trouble posting tonite ...
if this ends up being a duplicate I'll delete one of them.

 Boris ... did I misunderstand?
you have MultiVeg working in version 2.37.6?

not for me.
man ... this is just too strange ...
they do nothing ... nada.
just sit there.

if I open the console and check '? 50' ...
I get 0 as the value for any one of them.
?????
I thought I might be able to set the value of '50' to 1 ...
from the console and then it might reproduce.
did so ... but no luck. no change.
I get nada from any of the veggies.
now I recall why I thought it must be a bot designed for 2.4.A ...
and that's why I went there with it ...
and they work just fine.

I have no idea what to think about this.

??????????????????

[Numsgil]

Talking of fixed stems, I am looking in a future version to trying to fix the first stem cell to the bottom of the screen, make the plant grow up towards sunlight.

This may produce a 'waving' plant.  Should look quite nice in pond mode.

You can probably accomplish a certain degree of rigidity in 2.37.  This isn't really easy to do in 2.4, (the physics just don't allow it yet).

That is, in 2.4 the plant will probably be really floppy.